From lojban+bncCN673cmqFBCIpv7dBBoEyhm_yA@googlegroups.com Fri Apr 09 13:50:42 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f166.google.com ([209.85.221.166]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O0L9y-0001k7-ML for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 13:50:42 -0700 Received: by qyk38 with SMTP id 38sf2814146qyk.1 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 13:50:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:received:x-vr-score :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:user-agent :x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=zzyk4rA0Wu9/32BUEFKGaCMbSLGsbXtspGoRkJoJLe0=; b=5uwWA+BkbGwuZkfaozLbGM6oiV9EJbPTcuUkmQHKXR1EyNGFLNljNGUWYXWUleAYfa /o79/KEzvQgHb+T3lpXJQLvP7zk/cBmYUulsmdyk0UXZqS3A8Deu1kLb5IXUoevPStj7 0hS6x4c2Duka9349I5eTvxRvevnRMbwhn4ezM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-vr-score:x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score :message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=UwAE0x/R0QkMoc7kshBaLKAPh4fR2RRDxmmFmxFAQKMEBCeWmDatLGGuxuwZBGiR4c /+dXdEGM3olIB8MCG8tncPaiklpYX3GYayUrCQkB1u5+tQNxAO5SHfoeZXAKQdu6J6CG qL7AasOh14IoaJauLh9EG7Xk3dgKUPzqFxivQ= Received: by 10.224.10.27 with SMTP id n27mr32312qan.43.1270846216443; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 13:50:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.38.138 with SMTP id b10ls205516qae.4.p; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 13:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.79.218 with SMTP id q26mr70760qak.29.1270846214650; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 13:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.19.16 with SMTP id w16mr54769ani.58.1270842339106; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 12:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.19.16 with SMTP id w16mr54768ani.58.1270842339056; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 12:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmmtao104.cox.net (eastrmmtao104.cox.net [68.230.240.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19si161613ywh.8.2010.04.09.12.45.38; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 12:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.46 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.240.46; Received: from eastrmimpo01.cox.net ([68.1.16.119]) by eastrmmtao104.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100409194537.SWXN18026.eastrmmtao104.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2010 15:45:37 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([70.187.225.124]) by eastrmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id 3Xle1e0032hfrC602XleoY; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 15:45:38 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=u9aaE4Pfr0xy9UvPxuh9qFR1i2SV5RyaXjJQawTgqeY= c=1 sm=1 a=lBOGML6gZwMA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=lsg66w07okjF3vGJL2g+Jw==:17 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=-aeXGuiPrirTbM6AiQUA:9 a=Wh4aSN73tI08UG_tbRgTnJ_-x2IA:4 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=dxBpO5_FDU0A:10 a=lsg66w07okjF3vGJL2g+Jw==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4BBF83EC.2050402@lojban.org> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 15:45:48 -0400 From: Bob LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Cultural fu'ivla: summary and list of the ISO generated ones References: <4BBF505B.2050705@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.46 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/f66e2fdee6af20a6 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/8eeb4722dbf6bed0 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Jonathan Jones wrote: > 1) Having gismu for some cultures and not others is biased, and > therefore violates the "culturally neutral" stance of Lojban. Only in the same sense that basing the gismu-making process on only 6 of the 12 most-spoken languages is culturally-biased, because it excludes all the rest. If one thinks only about gismu, then perhaps it is. If one considers fu'ivla made from the name of the language/culture IN the language, then we've more than neutralized that bias. Gismu are shorter than fu'ivla, reflecting a presumption under Zipf's law of higher usage frequency, and references by speakers to their own language is a high frequency concept, so giving shorter words to more-spoken languages is one form of cultural-neutrality. > The only > acceptable solution to this is to either have a word for *all* cultures, > or to not have a word for *any* of them. We decided otherwise. > 2) The cultural gismu basically have too many meanings. For example, > {merko} means "x1 pertains to USA/American culture/nationality/dialect > in aspect x2". The solution to this is to ... make lujvo based on them. And in fu'ivla space, make culture words using the experimental space that allows fu'ivla to be made into rafsi and combined with the gismu used with the cultural gismu to make lujvo. lojbab -- Bob LeChevalier lojbab@lojban.org www.lojban.org President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.