From 35-m0SwoJBtEFHB95z4E5F39x58.zB98B6yxA3BB3813EBHCF.zB9@groups.bounces.google.com Thu Apr 01 11:46:27 2010 Received: from mail-pw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <35-m0SwoJBtEFHB95z4E5F39x58.zB98B6yxA3BB3813EBHCF.zB9@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NxPPI-0000yB-Co for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:46:26 -0700 Received: by pwi3 with SMTP id 3sf369850pwi.16 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:46:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:received:received :mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references:from:date:received :message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=jBLkzLItlpH2VGH/TrFgxa7eRXQswVS5tzzhHBTzSNE=; b=ZinaRpe69Or9D4qtr5KlqJ+c1tDJaI+BPT6oVmodzmvADatjglet1SwTbDtwoiZNjF h3BQiYD3vUJ0AzyE1fwY+d4R7C+fjLMLfBACXuUHCc7wqUdSq+neDuevoXTXeLa1uApw Gq5tyH/Yh00sTTn5CR2pz0fJBkt4aHCu3wW1I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=5VZYZ64Ow0KxSRwfHQup1uzAPuqKR3m6in6jHwEeS6k73hFSqavn46CDFxU+KpMox6 VCId0hB7HmAQMCFUeHGBOrOYSP3d4XdcSiZwCthWs6WYXOLDuCdvGHlQ0Rk+BM7uNF6O iaibWcA2vcpwiHFKV1jZPG1gvd2+gPOU+Rqqs= Received: by 10.141.91.10 with SMTP id t10mr53939rvl.1.1270147559462; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:45:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.141.187.12 with SMTP id o12ls804725rvp.0.p; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:45:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.15 with SMTP id b15mr170859rvn.0.1270147557924; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.15 with SMTP id b15mr170858rvn.0.1270147557883; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.10]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si1779612pzk.5.2010.04.01.11.45.56; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.10 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of nobody@digitalkingdom.org) client-ip=69.17.117.10; Received: (qmail 14333 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2010 18:45:56 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 1 Apr 2010 18:45:56 -0000 Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NxPOr-0000wb-Eo for lojban@googlegroups.com; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:45:53 -0700 Received: from mail-gy0-f181.google.com ([209.85.160.181]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NxPOl-0000wK-G1 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:45:52 -0700 Received: by gyg8 with SMTP id 8so541398gyg.40 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:45:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.5.20 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 11:45:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100401165252.GK6084@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100401165252.GK6084@digitalkingdom.org> From: Christopher Doty Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 11:45:16 -0700 Received: by 10.101.5.1 with SMTP id h1mr3023509ani.161.1270147536676; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] BPFK Announcement: Orthography To: lojban@googlegroups.com, lojban-list@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.10 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of nobody@digitalkingdom.org) smtp.mail=nobody@digitalkingdom.org; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: suomichris@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/11b07957f4e1e945 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/88807428ab8730 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c92696bd1ea9048331449d --001636c92696bd1ea9048331449d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Teehee.... I really enjoy that the most irritating part of this proposal to me would writing stress on all of the cmavo :p Damn linguistics... Chris On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 09:52, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > Pursuant to the recent discussion, the BPFK has been meeting to > decide what to do about declaring a very specific, offical Lojban > orthography that includes the best of various proposals extant, a > standard of marking stress that everyone can agree on, and the > flexibility to deal with alternative modes of typography in Latin > script. > > To that end, we've settled on the following general principles. See > below for a specific example (using the Alice translation, > naturally). > > 1. It has always been a founding principle of Lojban that it should > be easy to use with computers (this is what the ASCII convention was > about). Taking this further leads to two minor changes: > > a. A new set of letters for marking stress has been chosen, that > is at least as easy to use as capitals, but leaves capitals free > for other orthographic uses without conflict. For the most part, > these letters were taken from current standard internet practice, > however stressed "u" and "y" have no such standard, so they were > picked to resemble similar practice, but have no weight of long > use to back them up, unfortunately. > > b. The letter ' is now deprecated, since it routinely > upsets computers (try dealing with a file named "lo'i.mp3" in a > shell script some time). > > 2. While periods are preferred, it is always allowed to drop > periods, as before, but if you do so, it is preferred that you > replace the following letter with its capital form, to enhance > visual distinctiveness. For cases where a period has been dropped, > and the next letter is a stress letter, it's preferred to use both, > marking the text in some way to indicate that both are intended to > occupy the same space. Details of this markup are left to usage to > decide. > > 3. It is preferred to always mark stress, especially since we have > a much more convenient way to do so now; why leave out information > if you don't have to? This includes cmavo. > > 4. Compound cmavo are no longer allowed, at all. Their use will > result in several large men arriving at your house in an unmarked > black car. > > 5. For obvious reasons, using numerals for "p4", "r3", "c1", and so > on is deprecated. > > Here's an example of a not-totally-standard (because it drops > periods), but perfectly valid, text under the new proposal: > > p4 m0ho m0hi n1ha l3 r4ctu k3vna > ================================ > > N1ho l4 (4|A)lis c0ha t4tpi l3 n_ z_tse l3 r1rxe k0rbi r3ho l3 > m3nsi g1he z_kte f1 n0d4 (1|I) (4|A) b_ b01 p4 j1hi r3 r01 s_tra > zg4na g1he z_kte f1 n0 d4 (1|I) (4|A) b_ b01 s_ho r01 s_tra zg4na > l3 c_kta p01 l3 m3nsi c_ tc1du (1|I) k_hi c/ v4sru n0 p1xra j4 > nunc4snu (1|I) l_ j1ha m4 pr4li s31 l4 (4|A)lis p3nsi f1 l0 c_kta > p0i v4sru n0 p1xra j4 nunc4snu l1hu > > (1|I) (4|A) b_ c4ho m3nli jd1ce t0 s3 k41 l3 x4grai selk4he p3 > v4ho l3 n_ l3 gl4re dj3di c_ r1nka l3 n_ (4|A) b_ l1fri l3 n_ > s1pydji j3 b3bna t01 l3 d_hu x_ k4_ l3 n_ pl_ka f4 l3 n_ zb4su l0 > xr_la l1nsi c_ s3 v4mji l3 r4ktu p01 n_ sahirb1ho g1he cr3pu l31 > xr_la (1|I) c4 b0 s_ksa f4 l3 n_ l0 bl4bi r4ctu p01 xunbl4bi s3 > k4nla c_ b4jra z0ha (4|A) b_ > > You're welcome to talk amongst yourselves, of course, but this is > already a done deal; the BPFK has spoken, this is now official, and > the BPFK has a majority in the LLG, so you pretty much get to suck > it up. > > -Robin > > -- > OMFG am I not actually speaking for the BPFK here. Note the date. > No offense to anyone, including Everson and xorxes, is intended. > kthxbye > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --001636c92696bd1ea9048331449d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Teehee.... =A0I really enjoy that the most irritating part of this proposal= to me would writing stress on all of the cmavo :p

Damn = linguistics...

Chris

On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 09:52, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>= ; wrote:

Pursuant to the recent discussion, the BPFK has been meeting to
decide what to do about declaring a very specific, offical Lojban
orthography that includes the best of various proposals extant, a
standard of marking stress that everyone can agree on, and the
flexibility to deal with alternative modes of typography in Latin
script.

To that end, we've settled on the following general principles. =A0See<= br> below for a specific example (using the Alice translation,
naturally).

1. =A0It has always been a founding principle of Lojban that it should
be easy to use with computers (this is what the ASCII convention was
about). =A0Taking this further leads to two minor changes:

=A0a. =A0A new set of letters for marking stress has been chosen, that
=A0is at least as easy to use as capitals, but leaves capitals free
=A0for other orthographic uses without conflict. =A0For the most part,
=A0these letters were taken from current standard internet practice,
=A0however stressed "u" and "y" have no such standard,= so they were
=A0picked to resemble similar practice, but have no weight of long
=A0use to back them up, unfortunately.

=A0b. =A0The letter ' is now deprecated, since it routinely
=A0upsets computers (try dealing with a file named "lo'i.mp3"= ; in a
=A0shell script some time).

2. =A0While periods are preferred, it is always allowed to drop
periods, as before, but if you do so, it is preferred that you
replace the following letter with its capital form, to enhance
visual distinctiveness. =A0For cases where a period has been dropped,
and the next letter is a stress letter, it's preferred to use both,
marking the text in some way to indicate that both are intended to
occupy the same space. =A0Details of this markup are left to usage to
decide.

3. =A0It is preferred to always mark stress, especially since we have
a much more convenient way to do so now; why leave out information
if you don't have to? =A0This includes cmavo.

4. =A0Compound cmavo are no longer allowed, at all. =A0Their use will
result in several large men arriving at your house in an unmarked
black car.

5. =A0For obvious reasons, using numerals for "p4", "r3"= ;, "c1", and so
on is deprecated.

Here's an example of a not-totally-standard (because it drops
periods), but perfectly valid, text under the new proposal:

=A0p4 m0ho m0hi n1ha l3 r4ctu k3vna
=A0=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=A0N1ho l4 (4|A)lis c0ha t4tpi l3 n_ z_tse l3 r1rxe k0rbi r3ho l3
=A0m3nsi g1he z_kte f1 n0d4 (1|I) (4|A) b_ b01 p4 j1hi r3 r01 s_tra
=A0zg4na g1he z_kte f1 n0 d4 (1|I) (4|A) b_ b01 s_ho r01 s_tra zg4na
=A0l3 c_kta p01 l3 m3nsi c_ tc1du (1|I) k_hi c/ v4sru n0 p1xra j4
=A0nunc4snu (1|I) l_ j1ha m4 pr4li s31 l4 (4|A)lis p3nsi f1 l0 c_kta
=A0p0i v4sru n0 p1xra j4 nunc4snu l1hu

=A0(1|I) (4|A) b_ c4ho m3nli jd1ce t0 s3 k41 l3 x4grai selk4he p3
=A0v4ho l3 n_ l3 gl4re dj3di c_ r1nka l3 n_ (4|A) b_ l1fri l3 n_
=A0s1pydji j3 b3bna t01 l3 d_hu x_ k4_ l3 n_ pl_ka f4 l3 n_ zb4su l0
=A0xr_la l1nsi c_ s3 v4mji l3 r4ktu p01 n_ sahirb1ho g1he cr3pu l31
=A0xr_la (1|I) c4 b0 s_ksa f4 l3 n_ l0 bl4bi r4ctu p01 xunbl4bi s3
=A0k4nla c_ b4jra z0ha (4|A) b_

You're welcome to talk amongst yourselves, of course, but this is
already a done deal; the BPFK has spoken, this is now official, and
the BPFK has a majority in the LLG, so you pretty much get to suck
it up.

-Robin

--
OMFG am I not actually speaking for the BPFK here. =A0Note the date.
No offense to anyone, including Everson and xorxes, is intended.
kthxbye

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