From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCxtv7dBBoEdru5LQ@googlegroups.com Fri Apr 09 14:25:33 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O0Lhg-0004qA-5a for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:25:32 -0700 Received: by gwj21 with SMTP id 21sf1758908gwj.16 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:25:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HnTe2HQXQRpfr7D37d7MEWjQ9OnK7jxs3jmPgFin8g8=; b=DksdiXlU1FsjgkmuYUdC6I2wUitdWQj+6j9Ms9Pdyh460EoBYL/VEZf9lzGj6O+XhD jhdgAaii1ZwWL0/ich4CJQbdi4NZ3z6GPjdtHEe2Ynfx7nur2kaKVbU63eLpAlYcfNrm GA30yanWzQheT1y3oJzA7W+YOGy7cE7K1scss= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=JTPdBlOWluXsGc+Cki3YC51e+KT2MAwngeBOkpQ/2iGooON6tEZQEl0M3yS++Ii5td CXMiAUAJMkJASHmRKK9PaYUrm37sGToBppuXFtsN2PLx/GM3onMYjHliOXVKCTrC3u/+ JIhfYL2wZeU6KsiVes2ytXv28111M5vg+tLI0= Received: by 10.91.90.12 with SMTP id s12mr148125agl.37.1270848305552; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:25:05 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.6.77 with SMTP id 13ls425268bky.3.p; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.162.203 with SMTP id w11mr49525bkx.12.1270848304039; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.162.203 with SMTP id w11mr49524bkx.12.1270848303985; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.26]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id v26si1872123bkt.3.2010.04.09.14.25.02; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.26 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.92.26; Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 8so1220336qwh.33 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:25:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.91.212 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Apr 2010 14:25:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4BBF505B.2050705@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 18:25:01 -0300 Received: by 10.229.193.18 with SMTP id ds18mr813634qcb.14.1270848301928; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Cultural fu'ivla: summary and list of the ISO generated ones From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.26 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/f66e2fdee6af20a6 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/284c64cea013122a Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Christopher Doty wro= te: > > The situation with Swahili (and other Bantu languages) is different for a= ny > number of reasons. =A0First off, the language prefix exists as part of a > system in which EVERY NOUN starts with a prefix that indicates its noun > class. =A0The prefixes thus exist as part of an entire system; it's not j= ust > something that language names do, it is something that all nouns everywhe= re > in the language do. Are you saying that prefixes are acceptable to the human brain as long as all words in the language use them, but unacceptable/hard-to-deal-with if only a restricted class of words use them? That doesn't sound plausible to me. >=A0Plus, the prefixes on the nouns (or, more > appropriately, the class of nouns to which a word belongs, which is > indicated by the prefix) are used for a variety of syntactic functions--y= ou > can tell who is doing what to whom by virtue of prefixes that go on the > verbs, which correspond to the noun classes that are marked on the nouns. So prefixes are ok as long as they do enough work, but not if they don't do enough work? (In the present case, they serve two purposes: morphologically, they help to identify the word as belonging to a certain syntactic class, a brivla, semantically, they indicate what class of things the predicate refers to. Isn't that enough load? > =A0There are any number of experiment verifications of this: > your brain processes language as it goes along, and if that information i= s > not helpful or is not what it expected, it creates problems, because your > brain now has to backtrack or, in the case of having language names start > with the same thing, has to suddenly sort through the whole list, instead= of > having paired down in steps. But the ban-/baur- prefix is quite helpful! It tells you to expect a brivla, and furthemore, one related to a language. > My point with starting everything with some form of "bang" means that you= r > brain will not be able to do anything at all to get any closer to what yo= u > were trying to say. =A0Plus, it won't help me if we're in a loud room and= I > don't quite here what you said. =A0If the first element was meaningful wi= th a > system, then it can help in both of those ways. But the prefix is meaningful! Perhaps a bit less meaningful than a language-family prefix might be, but more meaningful than a random string of letters. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.