From lojban+bncCPSog_DDExCst_7dBBoEp9IvrQ@googlegroups.com Fri Apr 09 14:27:36 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O0Ljf-0004vq-9N for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:27:36 -0700 Received: by gwj21 with SMTP id 21sf1759383gwj.16 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:27:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:date :in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent:x-http-useragent:received :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=N+V2zBxavY4T/SXauufxaowQi6zFBAry3OD1iDiu4FA=; b=neAx0KgoblYhsDx0Mly0r8HIN5TQUEO8WsO1KbalFCoRB4fJyWqWC8U91fIcT6uiSf we4R+VBCmaVtAt0Rt9NYnYi76FAU1sWVh2JlB6vsTk3r4p/4gis0gmRVMKRgE3FTJK+o hE6UtnG57X8GotDgC+8u7bi6in4lro15eon7Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip :references:user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=0dQCqx08WJ3NQy1yQR7No84WZSM6oM2859Q9KAQriJRH01YOOwXUIVPgsK2fznIguu U/fH5d656/tTGuEXU3f5jVaqyUpZGiGEhGwjeO9Vk0axUYTk+9AmJ/3xVrV3qaj19XeG DQFsmJ5jl/NvRUKpArS9mNM2tNV58g7PQDvIY= Received: by 10.91.90.12 with SMTP id s12mr158297agl.7.1270848428777; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:27:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.90.172.20 with SMTP id u20ls95150age.4.p; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.7.36 with SMTP id 36mr1422191agg.10.1270848426286; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.7.36 with SMTP id 36mr1422115agg.10.1270848424356; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f56.google.com (mail-gw0-f56.google.com [74.125.83.56]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si153183ywh.15.2010.04.09.14.27.04; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jbotijlan@googlemail.com designates 74.125.83.56 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.56; Received: by mail-gw0-f56.google.com with SMTP id a18so1823012gwa.11 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:27:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by k33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Fri, 9 Apr 2010 14:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 14:27:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 94.195.20.70 References: <4BBF505B.2050705@gmail.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US) AppleWebKit/532.5 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/4.1.249.1045 Safari/532.5,gzip(gfe) Received: by 10.101.165.19 with SMTP id s19mr36223ano.59.1270848424254; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <214ece77-e78c-4fc8-a089-37ff2a3bf113@k33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Cultural fu'ivla: summary and list of the ISO generated ones From: tijlan To: lojban X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jbotijlan@googlemail.com designates 74.125.83.56 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jbotijlan@googlemail.com X-Original-Sender: jbotijlan@googlemail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/f66e2fdee6af20a6 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/39622495f6d2b833 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 9 April 2010 20:49, Christopher Doty wrote: > > In terms of "how the brain works," what I mean is that the brain processe= s speech linearly. But, as with everything in nature, the brain is also la= zy, and tries to use context to determine what is coming up. So, imagine t= hat I say, "The longest word in the English language is a..." > At this point, your brain has already thrown out a bunch of possibilities= . It's thrown out anything that doesn't start with /a/. It's also likely = already thrown out short words, because I'm looking for something long. "A= nt" is likely not part of the set of words that my brain is looking at. > "...nt..." > I still know it isn't ant, but now I also know what it starts with, and w= hat it doesn't. By the time I get to: > "...idises..." > You likely know what I'm going to say, assuming you've heard the word "an= tidisestablishmentarianism" before. And all that before I got half way thr= ough the word! There are any number of experiment verifications of this: y= our brain processes language as it goes along, and if that information is n= ot helpful or is not what it expected, it creates problems, because your br= ain now has to backtrack [...] In French, adjectives are basically backtrack: langue construite (constructed language) So, if the speaker starts with "langue", the listener waits for the following element which specifies the kind of "langue", which is "construite". And this is how my brain would process the fu'ivla "banjubu'o" as well. "ban...", language, "...jubu'o", Lojban: a language which is Lojban. In Japanese (and Turkish, Tamil, Basque etc.), the modifier-nucleus order can be almost reverse to English (and Spanish, Arabic, etc.): [1]What [-]do [2]you [3]think [4]about [5]this [6]language [-]which [-]has [8]no [9]syntactical ambiguity? [9]koubunteki-aimaisei-ga [8]nai [5]kono [6]gengo-[4]o [2]anata-wa [1]dou [3]omou? Literally: syntactical ambiguity no this language about you what think? As it goes along, "-o" (about) is followed by "anata" (you); do you consider this flow of information helpful? If it's not helpful, it would create problems, according to you. In fact, the word with the most important sentential information, the predicate, "omou" (think), comes at the end of the expression. But proficient Japanese speakers are not troubled by that, since their brain works such that it captures the sentence non-linearly, in its entirety, after all of its components have been laid out. It's processing 'as it has gone' rather than 'as it goes along'. > or, in the case of having language names start with the same thing, has t= o suddenly sort through the whole list, instead of having paired down in st= eps. Still for language names that don't start with the same thing, like "jbobau", the brain has to sort through the whole list of items evoked by that leading element. "jbo...", jbota'a? jboce'u? jboge'a? jbopre? and so on, until it gets decided with "...bau". mu'o mi'e tijlan --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.