From lojban+bncCIfx8JOUAxDXwP7dBBoEG09qQQ@googlegroups.com Fri Apr 09 14:47:33 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f137.google.com ([209.85.211.137]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O0M2v-0006PO-E7 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:47:33 -0700 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf578547ywh.28 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:47:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:x-virus-scanned:received:received :message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=i3AoHoesmglCcVex4OK4d0smd3aS0/HEcjT7YSNWHus=; b=Q71IsLHIGuei7xoVXV21+DB++OP10cn/5+M0+hGSM4mQeJ7MAzSd06Nlng5abSyff6 ehHhHbJp3okt75pfiGcad07p3YsfFLBcv3iiS9tUz8IyKDhDagQEwJrVpOJyIMb/iOBS wflDk1Sm28dDhYNqR1iGdsujvDG2I2zXU+mw0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-virus-scanned:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=sCACRLAxXFNmYrb9GAwXuzKLCpvDXnIoBNkIDQfpWQBC75uXA/hxh1vo71nkiXVTp0 GudxBUmnDyTnQHhM6Rnif62dT1iQFG1cr8/QMizne6//GqI0EvVimIyNEzHyR61TBi8K 3+o/RzUajFKo/7g1MLxerukPR850+UAigTTeI= Received: by 10.91.85.16 with SMTP id n16mr159042agl.32.1270849623891; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:47:03 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.59.76 with SMTP id k12ls139061ebh.3.p; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.51.68 with SMTP id c4mr57975ebg.26.1270849622411; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.51.68 with SMTP id c4mr57974ebg.26.1270849622388; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wouldyoubuythis.net (mail.wybt.net [195.191.196.3]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 17si94628ewy.7.2010.04.09.14.47.00; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.191.196.3 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de) client-ip=195.191.196.3; Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wouldyoubuythis.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61DE4855F for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2010 23:46:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.wybt.net Received: from mail.wouldyoubuythis.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.wybt.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aCzVIcigpcSK for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2010 23:46:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.2.106] (p4FE451B7.dip.t-dialin.net [79.228.81.183]) by mail.wouldyoubuythis.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B5A8E48537 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2010 23:46:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4BBFA03B.8030706@perpetuum-immobile.de> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 23:46:35 +0200 From: Timo Paulssen User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20091109) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Response ro Robin's "Essay on the future of Lojban" References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <20100409014708.GB11541@digitalkingdom.org> <4BBF5FB4.5070608@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4BBF5FB4.5070608@gmail.com> X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.191.196.3 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de) smtp.mail=timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de X-Original-Sender: timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/33d26e8385fed297 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/28ac158bb33286fe Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 And Rosta wrote: > A language is a system of rules mapping between sounds and meanings. > By that sensible definition, Lojban is nowhere near "pretty close to > good enough". The so-called 'grammar' doesn't deserve to be called a > grammar, since all it does is give meaningless structures to > phonological strings. CLL does make a start on the definition of the > rules of Lojban, but only a start. Some users of Lojban don't realize > how meaningless or semantically indeterminate their utterances are. > Some, I presume, don't care. Others are frustrated. And perhaps in a > small Lojban-speaking enclave of Argentina, they've created their own > much more complete dialect. I'm neither in the "don't care" nor in the "is frustrated" camp. Please explain what you mean by "meaningless or semantically indeterminate"? mu'o mi tolmencre -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.