From lojban+bncCNCCoMTMDhCRkoHeBBoEa0YMgw@googlegroups.com Sat Apr 10 02:47:32 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f137.google.com ([209.85.211.137]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O0XHj-0004m4-1d; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:47:32 -0700 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf773396ywh.28 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:47:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=48xKdNbfGEtoBbpPng4gzSI4S+LbR1W45HkkqxZfVo4=; b=XB7zVBX4c5qNlC/YQRXvl+PVVlJvlWftDAgj0R3O9TOtsa0d7UyGG0bzLY/0v+7WKu xpcrvG2PggdTeaEsnoAfgrufu771FFmvQiqYcLiAx6YMO5gnK0OLn1tQoo4+nfXIfPeQ Pdx6qkzzMI3UNGSsc0BKfJsmR5kWyfMc1TQRM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=l+UfbYGnHX9lDZZxBPzmGe2nYhEg2gaXW6ioTNZAjWcc9K8ePLrVNemCh83Jdj1TPp bdXU0sCpNULw9PtKEha/QylyKrSSlgDQp33ocPwL5maEB4qNIB68lWQrVPJ255KhpWgc rIFP1RipWmMeDxt+qK+kjMcI8Bn2jYj7Ar2o0= Received: by 10.91.160.33 with SMTP id m33mr243153ago.54.1270892817897; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:46:57 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.204.223 with SMTP id fn31ls285338ibb.1.p; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.169.75 with SMTP id x11mr135582iby.10.1270892814358; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.169.75 with SMTP id x11mr135581iby.10.1270892814335; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f177.google.com (mail-iw0-f177.google.com [209.85.223.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si312538iwn.3.2010.04.10.02.46.53; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.223.177; Received: by iwn7 with SMTP id 7so3368473iwn.31 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:46:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.10.203 with HTTP; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:46:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> <20100409002127.GA11541@digitalkingdom.org> <867212.21796.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Stela Selckiku Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 05:46:33 -0400 Received: by 10.231.149.71 with SMTP id s7mr546158ibv.86.1270892813139; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-announcements] Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community. To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/a29482fc82c4a7da Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Christopher Doty wrote: > > This also might be fine for a written language, since you can sit and look at a > sentence, but in speech, people just aren't going to be able to process Lojban. As someone who's reasonably fluent in Lojban, I find sitting here and reading this kind of assertion positively bizarre. In theory I should have trouble with "klama" and "fanva"? OK, um, interesting hypothesis-- but we've already done the test: I don't! Actually I can quite easily understand sentences like "la .bastyn. se klama mi fu lo karce" (I went to Boston in the car.) or "ma xe fanva fi lo glibau" (What's a translation into English?), either written or spoken, as well as producing them fluently. I do it all day long! Remind me again why I shouldn't be able to?? And also from lojbab: On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Bob LeChevalier wrote: > > It is easy to break this unity - terklama might be unusable as a predicate > in fluent speech because it breaks up that unity. We'll find out, won't we? I have already found out! I will tell you. It takes a moment to process a word like "terkla" the first time you see it, and then you quickly get used to it and stop noticing it. No one becomes fluent in Lojban as it's spoken today without feeling very comfortable with "te" converted gismu. Lojban hasn't proved all that much, but I feel confident in saying that it's at least falsified this hypothesis, that it's somehow not even possible to have 5 place gismu. I've never seen a new student struggle on "klama", and I've never seen people invent circumlocutions to avoid the supposed mental strain of using the later places of "klama". We use it every day and it seems to be easy, actually. So, there's that! mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.