From lojban+bncCNCCoMTMDhDYsYHeBBoEtKNNvw@googlegroups.com Sat Apr 10 03:54:53 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O0YKj-0000xK-Nc; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:54:53 -0700 Received: by gwj21 with SMTP id 21sf2031039gwj.16 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:54:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FSQ1sGHwNtSTkxlOsHXlbLUThgM6LWeCefg5kcRSOIk=; b=qUbDJ8oTuryh2MxCEkYEtVK/mvYHE79sXBMIP0l/PCf+LCWYFFp26cq8rUT0bS0XK/ +QxQKVDS61y6bvfSsH3SSPooi3cXEmiUUsZe0hm1HiEcOCs6hQYvHjspfGAapIKt7ddF TwxL4M9YDJyPJiXuvAIMM7lzhZuju6XR1ktac= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=G2mb9CcZ5t1akXe/001z6yh9HTkWD2BrwtbpFaqWwW0PX8YUcvs3GAz3ZeQd04AvTS bEvCBsM3JrjZvKvgr8fbV9x6rxTAYEtKYbwumUWfJzedxVx4ILUYMwhz1hTDTmiFwp2i +eTOooDbFxWCqOgyREtLhUDPgLo7ojEynS1WY= Received: by 10.91.56.20 with SMTP id i20mr256351agk.52.1270896856370; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:54:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.187.210 with SMTP id cx18ls286167ibb.0.p; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.151.211 with SMTP id d19mr142511ibw.9.1270896854407; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.151.211 with SMTP id d19mr142510ibw.9.1270896854370; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f173.google.com (mail-iw0-f173.google.com [209.85.223.173]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19si324615iwn.14.2010.04.10.03.54.13; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.173 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.223.173; Received: by iwn3 with SMTP id 3so2102917iwn.3 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:54:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.10.203 with HTTP; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:53:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100410035904.GS11541@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> <20100409002127.GA11541@digitalkingdom.org> <201004092108.00980.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4BBFDF2F.6050509@gmail.com> <20100410035904.GS11541@digitalkingdom.org> From: Stela Selckiku Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 06:53:53 -0400 Received: by 10.231.153.149 with SMTP id k21mr591904ibw.17.1270896853231; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] The efficacy of Lojban's grammar. To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.173 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/f9650b40f26d60fb Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 11:59 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > When I'm in practice, my statements pass the formal parser (mine, > not the official on) on the order of 95 times out of a hundred. =A0I'd > wager real money on that. > > Certainly 8 or 9 out of 10 is true for all the serious speakers on > IRC. Agreed! It's quite easy actually to speak properly parsing Lojban. Most of the time it's entirely habitual, not so much using your understanding of the grammar directly, but rather pattern-recognizing a wide variety of familiar conventional forms. It's only rarely that you produce or encounter a sentence shape that dips into the complexities of the grammar to find something new. For instance I'm reminded of my recent joy at the phrase "lo melbi ko li'i cerni" (have a beautiful morning, or literally, be the experiencer of a beautiful experience of a morning). Joy because of the *rareness* of that, of being hit by something in Lojban which I still had to think twice in order to parse! But of course if I hear now "xu lo xlali do li'i zgike" (are you not enjoying the music, or literally, are you the experiencer of a bad experience of music) or "lo milxe ko'a ti'e li'i lenku" (ko'a said it's only a little cold, or literally, ko'a is, I hear, the experiencer of a mild experience of cold), it doesn't make me feel quite the same way again. The fresh joy is spent-- I've added that form to my repertoire as one that I can hear and use without effort. mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.