From lojban+bncCNCCoMTMDhC8jIXeBBoEQr6l0A@googlegroups.com Sat Apr 10 20:47:34 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O0o8r-00017J-WD; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:47:33 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf2613254gyd.16 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:47:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1rjF96BGA8vP7LiuBrS5/uSB+xxhKyespPqC67w169w=; b=qEgyCK4Y52yBhaeG9P16lbT0S1yOnQeuWGCl/lQ6J6lZYrBtE5iOPiK0kLONUJsfGN WaQjz1z3poOt5PljISc2dUGDkh6q2uEGyRG+lcqeflgI2HybDFPHOheybwFZASm0ouYq Nk1QGHRkYJbUn6NiAQMSRnMfHW35CPj5y/6gE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Hw6knEnVfcE4AD5qzIBqnWyesqnXYimUZINMNOTDtOXmUNnH4IMdUTNeT/hHbjQQB5 BH/uqyFax+Lavy6LIj11972W31bZQWvj977zMc7eS9AHZ5GRkagSdHWczUbeJgMN8e8D guBOO84wzoZJ/CB2/kvlh2AVV3XUEmt4Pq04g= Received: by 10.91.203.22 with SMTP id f22mr379288agq.59.1270957628104; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:47:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.51.234 with SMTP id e42ls353783ibg.2.p; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.143.69 with SMTP id t5mr221228ibu.21.1270957625379; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.143.69 with SMTP id t5mr221227ibu.21.1270957625359; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f198.google.com (mail-iw0-f198.google.com [209.85.223.198]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si397163iwn.1.2010.04.10.20.47.04; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.198 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.223.198; Received: by iwn36 with SMTP id 36so3608631iwn.29 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:47:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.10.203 with HTTP; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:46:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4BC02ABC.8000300@lojban.org> References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <20100409014708.GB11541@digitalkingdom.org> <4BBF197D.6080601@lojban.org> <20100409222518.GN11541@digitalkingdom.org> <4BC02ABC.8000300@lojban.org> From: Stela Selckiku Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 23:46:44 -0400 Received: by 10.231.174.140 with SMTP id t12mr1010289ibz.89.1270957624149; Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Response to Robin's "Essay on the future of Lojban" To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/33d26e8385fed297 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/cb3810e684c7e921 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 3:37 AM, Bob LeChevalier wrote: > > On the other hand, Nora just said something that I think profoundly refle= cts > my misgivings. =A0She's tried (far more than I have) to understand xorlo,= but > she just can't get her mind around it. =A0That makes her feel incompetent= at > the language, which is the strongest demotivater for actually using it, m= uch > less doing byfy work. I agree that this can only be a sign that you've thought about it too hard. Under xorlo (which is the same as saying, with apologies to any holdbacks, under modern Lojban) the meaning of the article "lo" (which is the only one you need to learn to use) is simply "lo broda =3D zo'e noi ke'a broda". In other words it's simply something that is an x1 of broda. Nothing more is specified. > There seems to be a group of relative newcomers that would be happy to co= py > and/or paraphrase the CLL materials (which are now online, right?) and th= e > cmavo list, on each cmavo onto the web page definitions. =A0That is the m= ost > basic step. =A0Some can comb through the wiki and even the lojban list > archives and find where people have raised issues about that cmavo. =A0 I > think that treating the problem more like contributing to a wiki page on > each individual word will get us pretty close to a description of the sta= tus > quo without any actual decisions needing to be made. A wiki page on each individual word! That. That is what I want. A wiki is only one option, of course, but some sort of open forum dedicated to each word. I would prefer to see it as a new, separate project, clean, specific. (I suggest the name za'e "vlasnu".) I could maybe be convinced that it could be hosted on the tiki or in jbovlaste entry discussions, but so far it's seemed to me like the organization and structure and vibe of those places isn't conducive to the conversation I'd like to see. Most importantly I'd like to encourage questions from new students about particular words to be asked and answered in that forum. We've discussed most of the words in Lojban repeatedly, in depth, but we've lost those conversations to a lack of organization. I would also volunteer to go around myself writing a few informal paragraphs about my understanding of the meaning (and history!) of various words. My perspective on it is: I'm glad to talk informally in English about what I think the words mean, or attempt to specify them carefully in Lojban, but having to try to craft a brief yet unambiguous English definition, well, that's just the sort of thing I came to Lojban to avoid. :P Not that I don't think that's work worth doing, but I'm not the person to do it, as I can't get my head around it. >=A0And the silent majority is still silent; many of them are like Nora, > and unable to keep up with the traffic. Would you please ask Nora, and anyone else without the time to follow our main forums, if they would please consider tuning into Lojbanistan some other way? For instance one option is to glance sometimes at the front page of Jbotcan: http://jbotcan.org/jbo It's been quiet lately, but that means it's very easy to keep up with, and even if it were to get busy you wouldn't have to catch everything that goes by in order to enjoy it. It's a great place to pick up vocabulary! > One hopes that, post-baseline, there will be others who will be willing a= nd > qualified. =A0But I'm willing to risk it being you-and-xorxes if absolute= ly > necessary. mi ji'a pu'i kakne mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.