From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDTpIfeBBoEui0Dzg@googlegroups.com Sun Apr 11 06:45:14 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O0xTJ-00063E-8u; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:45:13 -0700 Received: by vws14 with SMTP id 14sf622833vws.16 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:45:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VGNyEDfvKuHAU2C1INQHbWstdYsczrS3Qv2SsmWK2NQ=; b=q8wE1iTa6v4GCkGrQjUKIi/kduoyFzIz+IjerKTyCbfMM1oJCvoYFV2P13/vMHAO8J OP7NXEPgjSPJxtIHnaHnnKj5N6ATS/6DEHJGcG96juteFIaetop8dXucNWXg+XHddyOS 8Gc3ttfHHqj/0Q4PqbPlut/M7FIAjg4GQbePQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=3usdUhSNjW199oNwGhRDr3eNdMUc9HlAewDRP++yKu4Dtf5Xzn5Fd912Iui7svCCUt owByMGnw3pBDjchYbKTUL4RGnefQwqnKNwVbxq8Ddk3mzcaG+9Oh/KZIaoxNpXSip8zP pM4QckuIjmy5QiIlj/LothoZ+Uxp074poeZgU= Received: by 10.220.122.78 with SMTP id k14mr180859vcr.40.1270993491058; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:44:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.47.17 with SMTP id l17ls511183vcf.5.p; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.96.196 with SMTP id i4mr669309vcn.6.1270993489291; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.96.196 with SMTP id i4mr669308vcn.6.1270993489267; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.121]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id 27si8645313vws.5.2010.04.11.06.44.49; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.121 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.121; Received: (qmail 67046 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Apr 2010 13:44:48 -0000 Message-ID: <807463.65850.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: YPWTosAVM1lqZ8IN1SjPOlwK0OVKGWjDNZRgbXOcpKRLahB Z4jgnqPPXMxtW1cdDL3w0kzBT_hmHA96XvmLZtAWBLqsSuczERe7vRNBod10 XMZJRx9Kjlvv1YCR2kyln4fhknnnI7enPMXhAP6RUfPp4A2vZ.UltFrWDocg okpGk45QL6.7HCY5IYbbuJ6qJ0DqTI90LPJYkmjB63yvU3vq9Pck5G.Rr9Aj DFRi3IWI_nb6MUEt97VEg4FcZBF1gtTZwB8IMSB9zsFAJTR.zWzaAGJN2cYm W43.BgV2nOS0hru.XneUa.107WHgl9ozAWj8wHuXtWU0TYup2F2_GANWhXVW NuhGcEmQPJw-- Received: from [71.14.73.129] by web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:44:48 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/348.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <20100409014708.GB11541@digitalkingdom.org> <4BBF197D.6080601@lojban.org> <20100409222518.GN11541@digitalkingdom.org> <4BC02ABC.8000300@lojban.org> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:44:48 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Response to Robin's "Essay on the future of Lojban" To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.121 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@yahoo.com X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/33d26e8385fed297 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/e0ee1ee5d410d1bc Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ---- From: Stela Selckiku To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, April 10, 2010 10:46:44 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] Response to Robin's "Essay on the future of Lojban" I agree that this can only be a sign that you've thought about it too hard. Under xorlo (which is the same as saying, with apologies to any holdbacks, under modern Lojban) the meaning of the article "lo" (which is the only one you need to learn to use) is simply "lo broda =3D zo'e noi ke'a broda". In other words it's simply something that is an x1 of broda. Nothing more is specified. _________ Well, not exactly. For one thing, 'lo broda' has to refer to an intensiona= l object, at least sometimes (and how to tell when?), regardless of what 'b= roda' means. So, if it has a single meaning, it must be of something that i= s at once extensional and intensional -- not something that brodas are like= ly to be (maybe even can be). This is a major flaw, but one that could be = removed fairly simply, basically by going (back) to the definition you sugg= estand sticking to it (this involves getting xorxes to update his notion of= universe of discourse and accept a standard write-around, but anything is = possible). =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.