From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRClxYfeBBoEmYv0lQ@googlegroups.com Sun Apr 11 07:54:58 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O0yYk-0007NH-NE; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 07:54:56 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf2869622gyd.16 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 07:54:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KRWeZ43CIifbBaCZ1FtArnyad0mK3JJl5wVV6g7yx2k=; b=dHAD7yPPwc8neBF6M4yMwJ6fCQGtmp7z627wAO6+BZd8VA/I8+msPzCWYfTF5uxywR eFCRtl0EorH74x+nf93OxV9Y86IvRhdNZeoLINyqeL5H5fKnAgbBTSIzuaPay9nHIbr8 1PUayZPyo8S8Yt5qUESjUts6Jbhf+iT3JcOIA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=5DBABYg3UMlgL+PF9Kua1YdFtz7zu1ybYiVx28zVFKZfBItUad0oLChoNmAUOx64Lu 7uLX7SE69+6KB3IstMiW99W+5KPbzYE7D3JlDkICtUA6apaCSumf2XrV13zyD/OmvKms 3F9cg/34V9BdNjV7Krl+iYF+uyycFMRgEt3UQ= Received: by 10.91.56.20 with SMTP id i20mr458881agk.22.1270997669515; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 07:54:29 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.35.68 with SMTP id o4ls1106624bkd.1.p; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 07:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.140.13 with SMTP id g13mr191404bku.0.1270997667942; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 07:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.140.13 with SMTP id g13mr191403bku.0.1270997667920; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 07:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f199.google.com (mail-qy0-f199.google.com [209.85.221.199]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a10si4072422bkc.1.2010.04.11.07.54.26; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 07:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.199 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.199; Received: by qyk37 with SMTP id 37so5375144qyk.8 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 07:54:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.91.212 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 07:54:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <807463.65850.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <20100409014708.GB11541@digitalkingdom.org> <4BBF197D.6080601@lojban.org> <20100409222518.GN11541@digitalkingdom.org> <4BC02ABC.8000300@lojban.org> <807463.65850.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:54:25 -0300 Received: by 10.229.224.133 with SMTP id io5mr4015771qcb.37.1270997665855; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 07:54:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Response to Robin's "Essay on the future of Lojban" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.199 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/33d26e8385fed297 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/c3ac29dfae18dab1 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 10:44 AM, John E Clifford wr= ote: > From: Stela Selckiku > > "lo broda =3D zo'e noi ke'a broda". =A0In other words it's simply somethi= ng that is an x1 > of broda. =A0Nothing more is specified. > _________ > > Well, not exactly. Yes, that's exactly how it works. > =A0For one thing, 'lo broda' has to refer to an intensional object, at le= ast sometimes (and how to tell when?), regardless of what 'broda' means. What's an intensional object? Things like "lo se nitcu"? "lo se claxu"? "lo se djica"? "lo xanri"? >So, if it has a single meaning, it must be of something that is at once ex= tensional and intensional -- not something that brodas are likely to be (ma= ybe even can be). Brodas are not likely to be two and three things at once, and yet "lo broda" can sometimes refer to two things and sometimes to three, and sometimes be completely unspecified as to number. >=A0This is a major flaw, but one that could be removed fairly simply, basi= cally by going (back) to the definition you suggestand sticking to it (this= involves getting xorxes to update his notion of universe of discourse and = accept a standard write-around, but anything is possible). The definition Stela gave is the one given in the BPFK gadri section, so there is nothing to go back to, we are already there. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.