From 3Sgi1SwoJBlMDF973x2C3D17v36.x97694wv819916z1C9FAD.x97@groups.bounces.google.com Thu Apr 01 13:56:06 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f144.google.com ([209.85.210.144]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3Sgi1SwoJBlMDF973x2C3D17v36.x97694wv819916z1C9FAD.x97@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NxRQn-0007og-KR for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 13:56:05 -0700 Received: by yxe8 with SMTP id 8sf941251yxe.25 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 13:55:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=xKgBg5E/2UIIqGrxtdozDKsaBtsoSQZw00Uqce47Fj0=; b=jrG7wsUyrkUZDsJ3AxwDYi3Yd5ggGkDRuYWBjuCapNY0RS2oOkWf2fp+7uC1h404XI TuyGqfX228dDKBTgA6czblLhm3ng+ox1wYEYx/20nH91q7NAq7g3HFZmWM2/Ivxb57rz QS5Z92PKzWxVxjuUND+V4J2BlK9tDp8UNqt4s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=3BCQh4Y3xqQB7Rj0CTEIEWzJLiaEeYb9wY6nBqkYafeXMoiyPsmicETqIf5xxRbkLQ wl4rxqQwkUKRzNh4wsKWkJIW7RoybyBqrdJpNhjTQo72Rsiyk9DgJ4By+aqjsZdFJJga MN6qZF5nhD8wfy83FBmUD32N0wzAPWP0cDl0o= Received: by 10.91.91.7 with SMTP id t7mr230453agl.15.1270155338317; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 13:55:38 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.28.1 with SMTP id k1ls439412ibc.3.p; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 13:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.190.134 with SMTP id di6mr73545ibb.15.1270155337067; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 13:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.190.134 with SMTP id di6mr73544ibb.15.1270155337017; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 13:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f54.google.com (mail-gw0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si1249771iwn.3.2010.04.01.13.55.35; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 13:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.54; Received: by gwaa20 with SMTP id a20so238684gwa.41 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 13:55:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.5.20 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 13:55:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201003312350.52303.phma@phma.optus.nu> From: Christopher Doty Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 13:55:12 -0700 Received: by 10.100.54.3 with SMTP id c3mr3115175ana.80.1270155335582; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 13:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Summary: Cultural fu'ivla To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=suomichris@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: suomichris@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/6edf3f52e6f491ba X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/d0f84dd6af38bd87 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f6cb2896454c04833315f5 --001485f6cb2896454c04833315f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alright, so, here are some revised/reconcocted fu'ivla for languages. I decided that there wasn't really a good way to go about standardizing how the two codes fits into the fu'ivla, but the main one was that, if you have a seven-letter fu'ivla, you get an extra C or V, and that seems like it should be based on the autonym (or at least the source for the ISO code), and not just a random consonant. I also did a couple of weird things, which I don't necessarily feel very strongly about, but which made things a bit easier, even though a bit of opacity was added in terms of being able to see the ISO codes. For the letter "c," when it appeared at the front of a code and as the sound /k/, I changed the "c" to "ck," which represents both the writing and the sound, plus making an easy, freebie cluster. "C"s pronounced as "ch" became "tc," although in this case, it isn't actually breaking the three-letter ISO code= . When "c" occurred at the end of a code, I left is "c." fu'ivla - Language (Autonym/ISO language/ISO family) portine - Portuguese (Portugu=C3=AAs/por/ine) polsine - Polish (polski/pol/ine) .arba'afa - Arabic (al3arabii/ara/afa) .argo'ine - Argonese (Argon=C3=A9s/arg/ine) bengine - Bengali (=E0=A6=AC=E0=A6=BE=E0=A6=82=E0=A6=B2=E0=A6=BE [=CB=88ba= =C5=8Bla]/ben/ine) bamnicV - Bambara (bamanankan) ckorine - Cornish (Kernewek/cor/ine) ckosine - Corsican (corsu/cos/ine) dzositV - Dzongkha (=E0=BD=A2=E0=BE=AB=E0=BD=BC=E0=BD=84=E0=BC=8B=E0=BD=81/= dzo/sit) Etc. How do this look to people? Chris On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 11:51, Christopher Doty wrote= : > Yeah, it might not end up working; or, rather, it might have to be a more > general, to say, for example, that all of the fu'ivla for languages will = be > of eight letters (or something), but without any reference to a specific > structure... > > I'll poke at it and see what pops out. > > 2010/4/1 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas > >> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Christopher Doty >> wrote: >> >> > So, for example, if the language ISO code is >> > CCV and the family code is VCV, then they go into a CCV'VCV fu'ivla, >> etc., >> > for each of the possible combinations. >> >> The immediate problem I see there is that the CC has high chances of >> not being a valid initial, and even not a valid cluster. >> >> If it's just not a valid initial, you can add an epenthetic vowel in >> front to get VC/CV'VCV. If it's not a valid cluster, that's more of a >> problem. >> >> mu'o mi'e xorxes >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --001485f6cb2896454c04833315f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alright, so, here are some revised/reconcocted fu'ivla for languages. = =C2=A0I decided that there wasn't really a good way to go about standar= dizing how the two codes fits into the fu'ivla, but the main one was th= at, if you have a seven-letter fu'ivla, you get an extra C or V, and th= at seems like it should be based on the autonym (or at least the source for= the ISO code), and not just a random consonant.

I also did a couple of weird things, which I don't neces= sarily feel very strongly about, but which made things a bit easier, even t= hough a bit of opacity was added in terms of being able to see the ISO code= s. =C2=A0For the letter "c," when it appeared at the front of a c= ode and as the sound /k/, I changed the "c" to "ck," wh= ich represents both the writing and the sound, plus making an easy, freebie= cluster. =C2=A0"C"s pronounced as "ch" became "tc= ," although in this case, it isn't actually breaking the three-let= ter ISO code. =C2=A0When "c" occurred at the end of a code, I lef= t is "c."

fu'ivla - Language (Autonym/ISO language/ISO family= )
portine - Portuguese (Portugu=C3=AAs/por/ine)
polsine= - Polish (polski/pol/ine)
.arba'afa - Arabic (al3arabii/ara/= afa)
.argo'ine - Argonese (Argon=C3=A9s/arg/ine)
bengine - Be= ngali (=E0= =A6=AC=E0=A6=BE=E0=A6=82=E0=A6=B2=E0=A6=BE [=CB=88ba=C5=8Bla]/ben/ine)
bamnicV - Bam= bara (bamanankan)
ckorine - Cornish (Ke= rnewek/cor/ine)
ckosine - Corsican (corsu/cos/ine)
dzositV - Dzongkha (=E0=BD=A2=E0=BE=AB=E0= =BD=BC=E0=BD=84=E0=BC=8B=E0=BD=81/dzo/sit)
Etc.<= /span>

How do this look to people?

<= /span>
Chris

On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 11:51, Christopher Do= ty <suomichris= @gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah, it might not end up working; or, rather, it might have to be a more g= eneral, to say, for example, that all of the fu'ivla for languages will= be of eight letters (or something), but without any reference to a specifi= c structure...

I'll poke at it and see what pops out.

2010/4/1 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjll= ambias@gmail.com>
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Christopher Doty <suomichris@gmail.com> wrote= :

> =C2=A0=C2=A0So, for example, if the language ISO code is
> CCV and the family code is VCV, then they go into a CCV'VCV fu'= ;ivla, etc.,
> for each of the possible combinations.

The immediate problem I= see there is that the CC has high chances of
not being a valid initial, and even not a valid cluster.

If it's just not a valid initial, you can add an epenthetic vowel in front to get VC/CV'VCV. If it's not a valid cluster, that's mor= e of a
problem.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--001485f6cb2896454c04833315f5--