From lojban+bncCJ2w4Zy_AhCqpIjeBBoECO2i1Q@googlegroups.com Sun Apr 11 11:17:37 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f198.google.com ([209.85.217.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O11iu-0004q2-DU; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:17:37 -0700 Received: by gxk22 with SMTP id 22sf1384249gxk.4 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:17:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=zPhYrPQ6HrAVh3e6X3LS89oG/ZYn4Pn5haazMwK40N4=; b=mP6QrRhYzc80qmM0wP4M6xA8icEGvLfZs66d6ePwLrA+YNUVoL7z/QAerreLvQz8mh 0hSfmhWpWuEYXXh9vxAceTmiS42t/r8MVyeE98z3ofkpgT9UU2wTx9PWtK8nxcPyrfVo f50uUoUr2BO44orWVsTxSM2RtoLJJIeOBXCjE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=pPmKE2LTT29CVQI8XNw5qj13+vflOrWp1aXu0Q/ZgJwBSrmhYZTOr+9oaBoH5T8s7A H3+3QNVXkRY8OIFWJarBdbnx98wzFJCxW6rh15WXtqvvBIJfeJ9Jh6SATaTwTeeczozN S+cq9jYZKgIUvUOwkBrEFaL8Z8FSj0hnr3wGY= Received: by 10.91.90.9 with SMTP id s9mr489485agl.13.1271009834182; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:17:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.90.216.14 with SMTP id o14ls256488agg.5.p; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.20.28 with SMTP id 28mr2353468agt.7.1271009833413; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.20.28 with SMTP id 28mr2353467agt.7.1271009833368; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f172.google.com (mail-gy0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 11si298580gxk.13.2010.04.11.11.17.12; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.172; Received: by gyh4 with SMTP id 4so2552812gyh.31 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:17:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.5.20 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:16:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Christopher Doty Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:16:52 -0700 Received: by 10.100.234.26 with SMTP id g26mr4893879anh.48.1271009832177; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Active-stative? To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=suomichris@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: suomichris@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/cdf18777732f3c27 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/3a2cdafaaff90e84 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636b42ebd8d90620483fa09af --001636b42ebd8d90620483fa09af Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 10:06, tijlan wrote: > From that viewpoint, it would be reasonable to say *sumne*'s x2 is the > agent. In fact, the gimste offers varying definitions in terms of the > arguments' roles: > > a. *x1 smells/scents x2* > b. *x2 smells/has odor/scent to observer x1* > > And the interpretation of cases starts to appear even more > undecided/speaker-dependent when we take into account the following > situation. > Forgot to comment on this.... These aren't varying definitions, they're two identical definitions which are put there so that English speakers, who notoriously use the verb "smell" as both a transitive and an intransitive, know which one they're using. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --001636b42ebd8d90620483fa09af Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 10:06, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
From that viewpoint, it=20 would be reasonable to say sumne's x2 is the agent. In fact, the= =20 gimste offers varying definitions in terms of the arguments' roles:

=A0a. x1 smells/scents x2
=A0b. x2 smells/has odor/scent t= o observer x1

And the interpretation of cases starts to appear even more undecided/speaker-dependent when we take into account the=20 following situation.

Forgot to commen= t on this....

These aren't varying definitions= , they're two identical definitions which are put there so that English= speakers, who notoriously use the verb "smell" as both a transit= ive and an intransitive, know which one they're using.

Chris=A0

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