From lojban+bncCN673cmqFBCT_IneBBoEaXr8dA@googlegroups.com Sun Apr 11 18:58:03 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O18uS-0007Hz-8H; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:58:03 -0700 Received: by vws6 with SMTP id 6sf212015vws.16 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:57:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:x-vr-score :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:user-agent :x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=EJy2dqPyZWcgnFU3gUYv8S8HykanBQo46cXBepv7Id4=; b=Xd3UIObB9jZycbOPO5ji3+ulykN5O60SbqdNaQnoHloX8SMcerCRjG3PS51AQGGnbk TgpOEMjRgCGnXg/l4Ci2jQAUcf2Smt+8rQJWblXkA2NdzozxST9Y2SR9wiU19VbYz00g RXtpfDIS6gGPPeFwILtnULFH1MD4qHv2Ok4XA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-vr-score:x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score :message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=YBmd0TlFAj9Ab4k7bVqu342B11m4z8V8QnQ0SJk06kizIFdoitYLoyyL28CjT2vppx Y19WiNNcHDN0CxCcnnHmApQ1YEW7wjd8G97L7jucKfHnx+esVfme21vljtAyCYPqkJTa jgjll//INhUkZC3UM1+Zya7GEiveQ+taF/NTc= Received: by 10.220.50.28 with SMTP id x28mr232664vcf.20.1271037459270; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:57:39 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.79.85 with SMTP id o21ls614044vck.0.p; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.76.203 with SMTP id d11mr714548vck.11.1271037458159; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.76.203 with SMTP id d11mr714547vck.11.1271037458130; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmmtao104.cox.net (eastrmmtao104.cox.net [68.230.240.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 27si10034250vws.5.2010.04.11.18.57.37; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.46 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.240.46; Received: from eastrmimpo03.cox.net ([68.1.16.126]) by eastrmmtao104.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100412015736.SBH18026.eastrmmtao104.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:57:36 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([70.187.225.124]) by eastrmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id 4Rxd1e0032hfrC602Rxdk2; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:57:37 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=garkv6WxUlWCZxlYffz6yNGlDVHTZyAXTUdcTJEJ4sc= c=1 sm=1 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=lsg66w07okjF3vGJL2g+Jw==:17 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=4NQJ6nw2MgWF01z5kp0A:9 a=9MoWRxVEIaiBD-BZCTkA:7 a=EaklwYBJgTfh-84Tem3kc1v-mawA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=H7mohcxPwwYhmq1x:21 a=vSpvepcPj9Tkxynp:21 a=lsg66w07okjF3vGJL2g+Jw==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4BC27E82.1070907@lojban.org> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:59:30 -0400 From: Robert LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Active-stative? References: In-Reply-To: X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.46 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/cdf18777732f3c27 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/ce2415e199d0f5fa Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Christopher Doty wrote: > On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 10:06, tijlan > wrote: > > From that viewpoint, it would be reasonable to say /sumne/'s x2 is > the agent. In fact, the gimste offers varying definitions in terms > of the arguments' roles: > > a. /x1 smells/scents x2/ > b. /x2 smells/has odor/scent to observer x1/ > > And the interpretation of cases starts to appear even more > undecided/speaker-dependent when we take into account the following > situation. > > > Forgot to comment on this.... > > These aren't varying definitions, they're two identical definitions > which are put there so that English speakers, who notoriously use the > verb "smell" as both a transitive and an intransitive, know which one > they're using. I forgot a comment, too. Does a brivla like cinri (x1 is interesting to x2; x2 is interested in x1) match with respect to the above comment? cinri, pluka and a few other words with an abstraction in x1 and a concrete (often an experiencer) is x2 have often struck people as being anomalous semantically, but I'm not sure how this affects the use of terminology (transitive/intransitive, nominative/accusative, etc). lojbab -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.