From 3y4PDSwAABl4HKF76JCKKCHACNKQLO.8KI@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Apr 12 13:34:47 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f198.google.com ([209.85.217.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3y4PDSwAABl4HKF76JCKKCHACNKQLO.8KI@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1O1QLD-00018a-OH; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:34:46 -0700 Received: by gxk22 with SMTP id 22sf2221430gxk.4 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:34:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:x-virus-scanned:received:received :message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=xfhuvGFUdIKRKRAtqsl2th+v5IDXf+0PJtjgI4pItNU=; b=5Eh+scN05zdA3prZbWSueMEAAhNPNIAacKrP4tAjoShXVuaI8etEf8CUEqi3EKArIA 7szqqynjjcVQkigXy8j2La7IrTpLk7THficIRG0wLqMK/alqO2xTbl0WVzTj6NKYMoeE wJelLUcL4ssjKAQs8/7ToXAVDg9g1eArsZAd4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-virus-scanned:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=eW1vL9RNEVGK1zd6ORiDEJAqeXKe/29KC9I2BP3JRXe1TWpM649wmCuOAGg6V0jlW1 BqcG53DhKrDLRA76X+tGsyxfsm+TOVF5qwWPKr7Q5FonIGXUExnjN1LgdH/y5ixLGRfq D0YZ1GvCs72+NvIdRzdd6NDinh3SjKw1H9zpc= Received: by 10.91.59.15 with SMTP id m15mr712555agk.26.1271104459444; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:34:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.59.76 with SMTP id k12ls11017ebh.3.p; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.42.144 with SMTP id s16mr395636ebe.11.1271104456920; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.42.144 with SMTP id s16mr395635ebe.11.1271104456895; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wouldyoubuythis.net (mail.wybt.net [195.191.196.3]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si285588ewy.0.2010.04.12.13.34.16; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.191.196.3 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de) client-ip=195.191.196.3; Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wouldyoubuythis.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 998404856C for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 22:34:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.wybt.net Received: from mail.wouldyoubuythis.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.wybt.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yAMMLJ4BOicu for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 22:34:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.2.106] (p4FE454B7.dip.t-dialin.net [79.228.84.183]) by mail.wouldyoubuythis.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 55A564855F for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 22:34:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4BC383B4.2040801@perpetuum-immobile.de> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 22:33:56 +0200 From: Timo Paulssen User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20091109) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] The efficacy of Lojban's grammar. References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> <20100409002127.GA11541@digitalkingdom.org> <201004092108.00980.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4BBFDF2F.6050509@gmail.com> <20100410035904.GS11541@digitalkingdom.org> <20100412182123.GR20647@digitalkingdom.org> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.191.196.3 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de) smtp.mail=timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de X-Original-Sender: timonator@perpetuum-immobile.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/ac6745728ada4fc4 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, Robin Lee Powell wrote: >> lI was asserting that people actually *do* use the formal grammar >> internally, and you're asserting you don't. > > I can't speak for whether you're an outlier or not, but I feel as > though I > work from an internal grammar as well. It is *certainly* not as > detailed as > the actual grammar (with all of its empty nodes and such), but it is very > similar in its structure (and it is my intent to make it even closer). In my head it feels like a hybrid approach for parsing: whenever I see a structure that I've seen a hundred times before, I immediately grab the matching tree-form from my cache, but whenever I see something I've not seen before (or not seen often enough), it feels like I'm walking some tree close to what Adam described. When I generate stuff, it feels that way, too. I think the "formal grammar" I've got in my head is much simpler than the one the parsers use, because my head uses a more concise format, that handles elidable terminators and such much better :) This previous paragraph might also amount to a load of bull, so a pinch of salt is recommended to go with the dung. mu'o mi'e timos -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.