From 3F5jDSwgSBr4vpts0ipphmkmxepomrkhsq.svkpsnferksskpikvsytw.gsq@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Apr 12 15:01:20 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3F5jDSwgSBr4vpts0ipphmkmxepomrkhsq.svkpsnferksskpikvsytw.gsq@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1O1Rgv-00009b-6q; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:01:20 -0700 Received: by pvb32 with SMTP id 32sf1750646pvb.16 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:01:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; bh=kpGkNmIPCpF0NWv/qFXojobz64diIMtCkyuwQ+0EEBg=; b=IkmGwcgBo9f7htj6TElcU7qbdhkB7lYorI8WWGrB2DsKwuU0aYVeKcDyOfAyrObS8F 2uwAYDWZdHiuXvln3ufIKdg4A8NmVeYTjK5W+2bj4xr0neMKTxNgk2K/UHqTbXU9VZD7 C+KGktbVgsIYo8qnufOLnRn+UaOwZsXC6BuQg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; b=zmN0Wv82wyKGxnatpwHPsFzsLSb/32MJPH5r77JHOAFwRN9pfwxVR7o09tEhW/zPBm mncWZQeirUDua1RNLJVCEcclh2i5JROzVk04rOFAtz//S7FWRDTwwUQ/ThfNW57a1tC6 /9i4CowOjXbvkbPoxSMgfHDWQMwgjUtUG8vO0= Received: by 10.141.4.8 with SMTP id g8mr452675rvi.22.1271109655165; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:00:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.141.188.22 with SMTP id q22ls102722rvp.1.p; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.13 with SMTP id b13mr794076rvn.23.1271109652894; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.13 with SMTP id b13mr794075rvn.23.1271109652874; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.5]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si982858pzk.14.2010.04.12.15.00.52; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.5 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) client-ip=69.17.117.5; Received: (qmail 27235 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2010 22:00:52 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 12 Apr 2010 22:00:52 -0000 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O1RgZ-000062-5h for lojban@googlegroups.com; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:00:51 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:00:51 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] The efficacy of Lojban's grammar. Message-ID: <20100412220051.GA10102@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> <20100409002127.GA11541@digitalkingdom.org> <201004092108.00980.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4BBFDF2F.6050509@gmail.com> <20100410035904.GS11541@digitalkingdom.org> <4BC08255.1000201@gmail.com> <20100412175849.GP20647@digitalkingdom.org> <4BC38D24.10608@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4BC38D24.10608@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.5 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/a762dd7c448f5a7c Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:14:12PM +0100, And Rosta wrote: > > At any rate, I will readily concede that somebody could learn the > formal grammar and then apply it by sheer brute-force brainpower. > I guess you can test that by doing a quick pencil and paper parse > and seeing if it matches the formal grammar. Way ahead of you; see other post. :) > But anyway, in the general case, bear in mind that the formal > grammar isn't taught; it's not covered in CLL, apart from the > nondidactic Ch 21. And nobody could work out the formal grammar > inductively from usage. Probably true in both cases, but a *LOT* of Lojban uses use jbofihe as a basic learning tool; I spent most of my years when I was unsure of my grasp of the language passing everything through either "jbofihe -x" or, if I was particularily unsure, "jbofihe -t", which generates a full parse tree. I'm far from unique in this respect. -Robin -- They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. 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