From 359HESwoJBskyy00p1qxp7v1px0.r3103yqp2v33v0tv63947.r31@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Apr 13 13:20:15 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <359HESwoJBskyy00p1qxp7v1px0.r3103yqp2v33v0tv63947.r31@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1O1mag-0007x9-6d; Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:20:15 -0700 Received: by vws14 with SMTP id 14sf986736vws.16 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:20:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wnGWq0kYHDqHaoHh7B/8QIPyZPwtta8h3eujT3Q0eNM=; b=skRS9U9l+Fucq3Oco2bj0sORXP+3kVUMaaCiBo41FywaDKjZn/huUAcOWR9IdMFZS3 zT0qMtsCuB3Z5lFQkzdKIO5TrhyUhhzWFxEFhmIq7fgGI3I78hYDcbpPONYwQu53qZkr KkJu0984EMW8Xke7KT4oQG+QC4b2yqAqSNgaE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=BPPRmavYL60IpZquivPKtyTlbZKGmRnAZzA9yytOpm8hDKSdhsgoOqJTAdGqis3qFB f5PlAE40liVv/m9DDtndC/B/CCRxig248PtOwXu2+Vu1mz1roo6AVhuUZxeNI7KK7+lt O6FAHdQoFgA41rj2SP6Ay+8OnyHBzpGE4wptA= Received: by 10.220.121.129 with SMTP id h1mr474600vcr.25.1271189991914; Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:19:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.79.22 with SMTP id n22ls41308vck.3.p; Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.168.71 with SMTP id t7mr974948vcy.9.1271189990390; Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.168.71 with SMTP id t7mr974946vcy.9.1271189990239; Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f195.google.com (mail-qy0-f195.google.com [209.85.221.195]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 34si15369475vws.3.2010.04.13.13.19.49; Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.195 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.195; Received: by qyk33 with SMTP id 33so8083730qyk.28 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:19:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.79.75 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:19:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4BC27C9E.2040306@lojban.org> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:19:48 -0300 Received: by 10.229.14.157 with SMTP id g29mr5804102qca.57.1271189988459; Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:19:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Active-stative? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.195 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/cdf18777732f3c27 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/27c6efa391edf849 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 7:44 AM, tijlan wrote: > Is there any BAI which can generically be used to translate a non-abstrac= t > accusative/absolutive object of a natlang predicate? I think "accusative" and "absolutive" are morphosyntactic categories. There is no syntactic category named that in Lojban. Of the five core syntactic cases, x2 would be the most likely candidate to be called "accusative" if you must use that name. There isn't really any of the five cases that could happily be called "absolutive", but if you must choose one it would have to be x1. (It wouldn't make much sense to use both "accusative" and "absolutive" as part of the same analysis though.) BAIs correspond to semantic roles, such as "patient". The semantic role "patient" is in nominative-accusative languages normally marked with the accusative case, in ergative-absolutive languages it is normally marked with the absolutive case. I would say that the BAI that most closely corresponds to "patient" is "ri'= i". >In other words, how can > we rephrase "da de citka" by means of BAI? Could it be: > > =A0zu'e da tezu'e de citka I think more like: zu'e da ri'i de citka > I'm not sure what English "end" exactly means for "zukte"s x3. Is it > supposed to exclude non-abstract sumti like "citka"s x2 here? A te zukte is the goal for doing the se zukte: mi zukte lo nu mi citka kei lo nu mi na xagji mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.