From 3SuDFSwoJBjwhhjjYkZgYqekYgj.amkjmhZYlemmejcepmsnq.amk@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Apr 14 08:43:07 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f165.google.com ([209.85.221.165]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3SuDFSwoJBjwhhjjYkZgYqekYgj.amkjmhZYlemmejcepmsnq.amk@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1O24k1-0001XT-52; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:43:06 -0700 Received: by qyk37 with SMTP id 37sf254679qyk.20 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:42:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=WBg5RuJ7muPowiJ8Z22YSwmvUQ4b3SanBaKLsf2UqeQ=; b=EoYw5UlEJaSS+ya/myANWyXCjlxfwqMbM6jlMgf1msigAp71mnAe1pwTFQ49vFUgIq ZDXKw5bEAP4iQ+TFskmQ0PISD8A0EtJqhNQAC0g613l4AP3HvJwiUtp3Xz6bSnvYjT5h vWwuTtRV2Io3i1aA4x7MDj4hGfDry9g8/Y75Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Gok8IQWaH3Ej09JJdquLZ2kR4VZRPmU9YoDKdKg/VskJxKPMY1TPlAdfBbZUgh3+jp Izy4NaBjo8Qt54rseWUF4tDQU9CammvYw14EPiD0dGvSThlsBML8ZPB2p9oXdGzTiihO HOSPRIpGkJQP5iq7mOeQC9Ihe+PC/lDj7bBAM= Received: by 10.229.1.153 with SMTP id 25mr248653qcf.41.1271259210150; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:33:30 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.34.9 with SMTP id j9ls368753qcd.3.p; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:33:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.192.68 with SMTP id dp4mr540930qcb.13.1271259204277; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.192.68 with SMTP id dp4mr540929qcb.13.1271259204255; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.24]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si92350qyk.4.2010.04.14.08.33.23; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.24 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.92.24; Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 8so68915qwh.53 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:33:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.79.75 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:33:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <448505.50300.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <201585.79379.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <201004132253.05621.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 12:33:22 -0300 Received: by 10.229.230.84 with SMTP id jl20mr10841521qcb.88.1271259202979; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] {le} in xorlo From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.24 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/33d26e8385fed297 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/4fcb5459e31cecce Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 12:10 AM, Craig Daniel wrote: > > Wait, I thought the definition of SE conversions was such that "re lo > ci bakni ku pa pipno cu citka," "re lo ci bakni cu citka pa pipno," Those two are equivalent. > "pa pipno cu se citka re lo ci bakni," "te citka pa pipno ku re lo ci > bakni", Those two are equivalent, but not equivalent to the first two. >and so forth were all equivalent. But my Lojban's a bit rusty > these days and my xorlo's never been entirely right; am I > misremembering? Nothing to do with xorlo. The order of quantifiers has always been relevant. You can play around with SE and reorder the arguments all you want *after* you have moved the quantifiers to the prenex, but you can't change the order of quantifiers without affecting the meaning. Saying that the number of cows that eat exactly one piano is exactly two is very different from saying that the number of pianos that are eaten by exactly two cows is exactly one. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.