From 3HrfGSwgJBucPNc.XaNWPVJRU.LXVUXSKJWPXXPUNPaXdYb.LXV@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Apr 14 23:50:31 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3HrfGSwgJBucPNc.XaNWPVJRU.LXVUXSKJWPXXPUNPaXdYb.LXV@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1O2Iu8-0004ZJ-Ce; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:50:31 -0700 Received: by pvb32 with SMTP id 32sf250638pvb.16 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:50:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:from:date :received:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=8D2lXGwAMzILvC7BpUe70lHCPy4jsk5u6R6j+uUkjl0=; b=wI0lFRoIChgcftkyXUCUZ6uUGsjCDTkk6yyQmPNExUbYCr9Ej357+8bY6arnI+Ut3E hVaVltmisywk6/NjtEgLUxTc1lEMtxBm3EO6Vn6CpqvGT6Io7bx5R8UonfJNNFIqRbMi /n0stKIPfRv4HuN92rCMBVKbTyzW8d8Zu2hRg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject :to:x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=BuhEwdm9CsA4Eh6wYy49hDysBwzM7KsHK/RQYyvSrnT4PoAk08QXU2pmP72BD7woHZ kT/RPuDfIY1dB8gfQE9KxejfYisuZ5ZCB2nf+mUCopluf0fR1hpbIwVFhrC0q2N7u51i Nah9PIYaT4hNQ/AbH0R5ZhNakwURchOfti7fY= Received: by 10.115.101.19 with SMTP id d19mr591819wam.27.1271314206152; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:50:06 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.115.38.17 with SMTP id q17ls583114waj.0.p; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.33.39 with SMTP id g39mr1535505wag.1.1271314204554; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.33.39 with SMTP id g39mr1535504wag.1.1271314204512; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pv0-f178.google.com (mail-pv0-f178.google.com [74.125.83.178]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si231134pzk.5.2010.04.14.23.50.03; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.178; Received: by pvg4 with SMTP id 4so619290pvg.23 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:50:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.109.10 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:49:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Oren Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 14:49:43 +0800 Received: by 10.143.132.6 with SMTP id j6mr3672129wfn.278.1271314203258; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Should I propose an experimental cmavo? (was non-urgent research request to help Lojban.) To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com, lojban X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=get.oren@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: get.oren@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/4b6de8cfaeeca462 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/b0eec88349a11663 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "In answer to your question[1]. If I want to say "forget it" or "nevermind" I'll use {ju'inai}." --Luke Bergen The problem with { ju'i } is that it's a COI vocative, which leads me to interpret it as informing 'paying attention to' or 'ignoring' the utterance itself, not commenting on the content. The glosses seem to agree with this interpretation. To illustrate: { .i ju'i mi klama } "Hey listen up, I'm going." { .i ju'inai mi klama } "Don't pay attention [to me saying this], I'm going= ." What I want to say, however, is approximately: "Recall, I'm going." or "Remember, I'm going." or, "I'm going, ya know!" ...meaning I'm reminding you that I'm going. It's important that you (the listener) know this; "Don't forget." "Never mind me going." or "Forget about me going." or, "Whatever, I'm going= ." ...meaning I'm anti-reminding you. It's not important that you know this. "Forget about it/ never mind." co'o mi'e korbi P.S. I think I may be proposing an experimental BAI cmavo soon for this term. Even in isolation it could be a useful term: we already are accustomed to "never mind" in English. The complimentary "don't forget" meaning of the word would fill in a gap in English that makes dialogue like this example more ambiguous than it needs to be: [scene: A and B just made a little plan about something, now B is leaving.] A: Goodbye, B B: Goodbye, A. [heads for door to leave] A: ...Oh, and B-- B: [halfway out the door] Yes? A: ...[knowing glance]... B: ...er, what's that look supposed to mean? A: Don't forget! B: Oh, right, of course not. Bye. [now, in Lojban, using BAI for this concept i'm describing] A: co'o bybu B: co'o abu A: BAI B: je'e co'o [1] From the learner list: "In chinese, a number of attitudinals have particle counterparts, for example =E5=90=A7 corresponds with { .e'u }. However, one particle that Chinese has that lojban doesn't seem to is 'make note/don't forget.' In chinese it's =E5=93=A6/=E5=99=A2 and it's used pretty commonly-- perhaps= best characterized by caring parent-like expressions; i.e. "You'd better bundle up =E5=93=A6." "I'd imagine that if we had a "reminder/exhortation" cmavo, putting a nai o= n it would mean something like "forget about it/never mind," another pretty common phrase... how do we say these things in Lojbanistan?" --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.