From 3o1C1SwsJBvQhqgaWXancajciWeh.YkihkfXWjckkchacnkqlo.Yki@groups.bounces.google.com Thu Apr 01 19:04:44 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f167.google.com ([209.85.221.167]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3o1C1SwsJBvQhqgaWXancajciWeh.YkihkfXWjckkchacnkqlo.Yki@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NxWFU-0007G4-Uy for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:04:44 -0700 Received: by qyk39 with SMTP id 39sf2935295qyk.23 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:04:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=ZaRynAYf7Mxq30W0X6mzvSk4018C4ZEKFNVxo6hWf6s=; b=miLYjvsY+lIj7tUl57rvNxT8v90z+EsVU/l6dvBDWdO/ohdZHZdlyOzkmMAUzDtoS/ 7tX1TCa2nWghj91HiUoVRt8gT3gI9fX+G0AChdLHZ5Y8h/b/RAdPWgBhRkjporrB74SP fN8u+OVWCJNI3it3aG9dFhEUNUgNGDx+0Yad0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=R4Pi9TxFoboLZiwPDMDyhHx74xnrd43imOfWAGr73Bzc55h6sduhclDSsE9XZA2f9t 8+0IlsSj0m5AUyQz2JPhLfLIebxOisbeMPsDkaTkBXus32//QCqz+avqSJuH2H630W89 XfRjDg8mPbtrXPnJlRG1iWo2/If40R04nnCdw= Received: by 10.224.84.205 with SMTP id k13mr45989qal.33.1270173859562; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:04:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.32.10 with SMTP id a10ls104897qad.2.p; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.56.195 with SMTP id z3mr110427qag.18.1270173856858; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.56.195 with SMTP id z3mr110426qag.18.1270173856812; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f48.google.com (mail-vw0-f48.google.com [209.85.212.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si891809qyk.6.2010.04.01.19.04.15; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.48; Received: by vws14 with SMTP id 14so871081vws.21 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:04:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.100.73 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 19:04:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 22:04:15 -0400 Received: by 10.220.107.17 with SMTP id z17mr878018vco.75.1270173855596; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] So what do we say for Swedish? (was "Summary: Cultural fu'ivla") From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/b7cc2efa3fc3ba64 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/5c1c5b4573b2b64b Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09f8de7b877428c04833765d8 --00c09f8de7b877428c04833765d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hear hear. Although I have to disagree with you. When I physically speak out {sfe'ero} and {svero} I like the sound of {sfe'ero} better. It has a really nice ring to it IMO. I'm all for fu'ivla that are based on how the native speakers speak their nation/nationality/whatever. On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 8:56 PM, Stela Selckiku wrote: > Sounds great in theory, doi cultural fu'ivla reformers! In practice, > though, here is a question that actually confronts me in speaking > Lojban day-to-day: What do we say for Sweden and Swedish? What I've > mostly seen in use is the cultural fu'ivla space "sfe'ero" and the > outr=E9 experimental gismu "zvero". I preferred "sfe'ero" on principle, > until I actually tried pronouncing both of them out loud! :) > > It's all well and good to talk about the theoretical issues that might > come up someday when coining terms for all the Bantu languages, but I > think we might get a clearer view of those issues if we could first > convincingly resolve the issues that we're already encountering in the > language as we use it. The way we're heading now is towards cultural > fu'ivla for everything, none of which are used, and cultural gismu > also for any culture that actually has any Lojbanists or that we > regularly talk about. That's not what any of us want! But that's > where we're headed! We need not just an idea of what would be a more > rational method, but a strategy for how we're going to move the > language in the new direction we choose. > > mi'e la stela selckiku > mu'o > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --00c09f8de7b877428c04833765d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hear hear. =A0Although I have to disagree with you. =A0When I physically sp= eak out {sfe'ero} and {svero} I like the sound of {sfe'ero} better.= =A0It has a really nice ring to it IMO. =A0I'm all for fu'ivla tha= t are based on how the native speakers speak their nation/nationality/whate= ver.

On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 8:56 PM, Stela Selcki= ku <selckiku@gma= il.com> wrote:
Sounds great in theory, doi cultural fu'ivla reformers! =A0In practice,=
though, here is a question that actually confronts me in speaking
Lojban day-to-day: What do we say for Sweden and Swedish? =A0What I've<= br> mostly seen in use is the cultural fu'ivla space "sfe'ero"= ; and the
outr=E9 experimental gismu "zvero". =A0I preferred "sfe'= ero" on principle,
until I actually tried pronouncing both of them out loud! :)

It's all well and good to talk about the theoretical issues that might<= br> come up someday when coining terms for all the Bantu languages, but I
think we might get a clearer view of those issues if we could first
convincingly resolve the issues that we're already encountering in the<= br> language as we use it. =A0The way we're heading now is towards cultural=
fu'ivla for everything, none of which are used, and cultural gismu
also for any culture that actually has any Lojbanists or that we
regularly talk about. =A0That's not what any of us want! =A0But that= 9;s
where we're headed! =A0We need not just an idea of what would be a more=
rational method, but a strategy for how we're going to move the
language in the new direction we choose.

mi'e la stela selckiku
mu'o

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