From 3A0bHSwYKBlwFID545FID54H.ILAFID54HAIIAF8ALIOJM.6IG@groups.bounces.google.com Thu Apr 15 10:00:14 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f137.google.com ([209.85.211.137]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3A0bHSwYKBlwFID545FID54H.ILAFID54HAIIAF8ALIOJM.6IG@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1O2SQA-0006rA-D3; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:00:14 -0700 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf848341ywh.28 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:59:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:x-vr-score :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:user-agent :x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=neLor0kI4raXRtLCOk/m9sMwfDRv1lcEjTiNUb8IWgc=; b=jpMF1cOnSdnnq1NfBYGftEPVQo141xmEMyq6aDuvycaEhYry7JRgpmIg6pnGkSP3ts G0yo8ypI8fkItwiBl3Ya6Ws6qJ6+R2a3uSIJeIgNzSFTT+fFyn8FGIg7oFUAC0ri6/c5 7DmWR2X8ZAxJ/QJu62cCdUGW+Nr6VCYKmJ1ZM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-vr-score:x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score :message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=n87BpH7vsoKUCUvKrFurNXeNMjurztoxRUE01RXFnjv+5dDXrQJAmyD4PnZYsPsIQX 6m2NjFu7c+7KrZKAjOBYNDdNaWhRsedbS1j35n0TaoJGAEpnf17guKr26PwbWAGJdVb9 RKpInvAoK8NbA8hJBDiHZB1Cr6HIzsQo57JXw= Received: by 10.101.11.36 with SMTP id o36mr28949ani.14.1271350787905; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:59:47 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.146.27 with SMTP id y27ls466344ann.2.p; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.189.39 with SMTP id r39mr226860anp.44.1271350786860; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.189.39 with SMTP id r39mr226858anp.44.1271350786791; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmmtao107.cox.net (eastrmmtao107.cox.net [68.230.240.59]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 17si572379anx.2.2010.04.15.09.59.46; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.59 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.240.59; Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao107.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100415165947.HGKY23683.eastrmmtao107.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:59:47 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([70.187.225.124]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id 5szm1e0042hfrC602szm5E; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:59:46 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=lL4dQe6A0XfTYzqIbzpq/h+TkgPEjAvcHnuEPneVQrQ= c=1 sm=1 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=lsg66w07okjF3vGJL2g+Jw==:17 a=Qm3tjoNk9UXbMLhL-CgA:9 a=u9mnuv7OfQlcRkOPZ1cUIINumVYA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=lsg66w07okjF3vGJL2g+Jw==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4BC745FE.2050108@lojban.org> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:59:42 -0400 From: Robert LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: {le} in xorlo References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <448505.50300.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <201585.79379.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <201004132253.05621.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4a02d723-a934-434a-b626-0a3a9fbf803f@u22g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> <4BC72C43.7030108@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4BC72C43.7030108@gmail.com> X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.59 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/33d26e8385fed297 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/6ed3430845f67afa Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed And Rosta wrote: > What *is* relevant to discussion on Lojban > list is the simple recognition that because Lojban fails goals (b) and > (c) of logical-languagehood, it is unreasonable to insist on > logical-languagehood being a continuing Lojban design goal in the > specification of the the mission of the BPFK. Which is one reason that has not been part of the mission of the BPFK. Their mission is to define the language that is. It should be up to Lojbanists of the future if there is to be a LoCCan3 > "zo'e'e" would be a KOhA pointing to a specific thing. Actually, I think ko'a itself and its relatives do, but they presume that someone has specified with ko'a means with goi. (I think) no one has ever decided what using "ko'a voi broda" means, where ko'a is unassigned, but it would seem to me to be equivalent to (the old, if not necessarily the xorlo) "le broda", barring the need to express quantification explicitly (i.e. le ci broda") > Communicatively you can manage without it by > using "le du" instead. The rationale for "zo'e'e" was in the context of > the suggested formal periphrastic definitions of gadri in terms of KOhA > NOI constructions. If you can manage it with something else, why propose a different definition? Someone is looking to add elegance to what apparently already works, when elegance wasn't necessarily something we were trying for (as opposed to packing as many critical distinctions as possible into as few words as possible, where there is disagreement now as to what distinctions are critical, but there wasn't in 1988). lojbab -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.