From 33lvHSwURBk0q6xp2q9x0s73u8Bp6t.r3103yqp2v33v0tv63947.r31@groups.bounces.google.com Thu Apr 15 11:33:24 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <33lvHSwURBk0q6xp2q9x0s73u8Bp6t.r3103yqp2v33v0tv63947.r31@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1O2TsO-0005hl-Gy; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:33:24 -0700 Received: by pvb32 with SMTP id 32sf428658pvb.16 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:33:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:x-mailer:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=qNaK8KQ0vGEQvRt2D1gQK/XuHhRbNad4uoZWz1hkJD8=; b=R+q0ngXAxMPVxTa3Cl7U1WKHjGEVmDOlAwSpVkHJZVKbbdYpNLNLBgqJ6ihvSoX96u JUT1hShXJOWJIdKaEu7aNhqG+dsGLCW3DcFc04AWGlSdjmPsbgT8AkdehDswNNDS4jQe zBZN5vN0beQ7MMKUkgNQJZjh+/puETjeVIHO0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:x-mailer :mime-version:subject:date:references :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=blX0K4410yEsuHhgl4ce80DQCe4eZ0URnqzufvgX5J8OFFaoYOYj0idObESXaiGlGu /0woSxKSHWy80yZDb+zyFqYNFciQaOVAP8sEAM/1lDnjt9TJqHME1V3FRpD54ru/Oj/j 2YDvaUoGGoTyPahpFRMEMprovCA2kVz2q8Qrg= Received: by 10.141.22.14 with SMTP id z14mr88689rvi.20.1271356382909; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:33:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.255.17 with SMTP id c17ls1111945rvi.2.p; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.83.37 with SMTP id g37mr93977rvb.26.1271356380294; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.22.14 with SMTP id z14mr94rvi.18.1271332204317; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.22.14 with SMTP id z14mr93rvi.18.1271332204287; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scribe-02.kattare.com (scribe-02.kattare.com [204.13.10.126]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si276731pzk.0.2010.04.15.04.50.03; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of brian@buildsoftware.com designates 204.13.10.126 as permitted sender) client-ip=204.13.10.126; Received: from [10.115.19.101] (mobile-166-137-011-203.mycingular.net [166.137.11.203] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by scribe-02.kattare.com (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o3FBnxr8032602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:50:02 -0700 Message-Id: From: Brian Eubanks To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (7E18) Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 7E18) Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Request For Help; non-urgent research request to help Lojban. Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 07:49:54 -0400 References: <20100407053428.GA9239@digitalkingdom.org> <0b44ea18-b1a9-42c4-9e2e-ad2b5d19af23@z6g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of brian@buildsoftware.com designates 204.13.10.126 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=brian@buildsoftware.com X-Original-Sender: brian@buildsoftware.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/eb8a3ed85a2128d0 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/edf6c63215e5222f Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Hi Oren, We corresponded last year about the Jorne (Lojban RDF) project I am trying to get started. The idea of using a Wordnet type approach is excellent. In fact, I would love to see a LojWordNet in association with the Jorne OWL mapping. Are you still interested in working on an OWL mapping for Lojban gismu? If so, I would like you to join the Sourceforge Jorne project. The growing amount of linked data makes this a great time to do this. I am working with the PEG parser to import simple sentences into an RDF triple store with the hope of converting between SPARQL and Lojban queries. My Lojban is not even baby talk level yet, which is where I could use your help too. I've been a lurker in the Lojban space but haven't spent time to learn it. Regards, Brian Eubanks Sent from my iPhone On Apr 15, 2010, at 3:52 AM, Oren wrote: > I like the idea of categories (or... tags!), I think the wiki is the > place for it to happen, and I also think we shouldn't start from > scratch. The thesaurus on the wiki page already segregates all gismu > into hierarchical categories. We can make a page template that allows > people to add "lujvo requests" to a category. A sister project to > consider would be fleshing out that same ontology with the existing > specialized lujvo lists and the lujvo flat file. > > I would also think that English/natlang glosses for the categories > should be optional while lojban section titles be mandatory and > default, for clarity. > > Back to the original topic of finding a minimal wordlist for a > dictionary, I think the real forward-thinking approach would be to > find some sufficiently open project similar to EuroWordNet [a > multilingual WordNet], and then extracting a set number of unique > *syslinks* (word senses), so that when we sit down to define 'spring' > we don't have to remember jumping, metal coils and le printemps all by > our erring-human selves. > > We could either use an arbitrary limit and go by frequency, and/or go > for all syslinks that contain an arbitrary number of constituent > languages. For example, only bother with 50% of all word senses that > appear in three or more languages. > > co'o mi'e korbi > > On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 15:13, Lindar wrote: >> My absolutely fantastic idea that donri/kribacr started and never >> finished (or never even started, but definitely came up before I >> thought of it [but it's still my idea]) is/was/will be to have groups >> of people select topics, and then go through and come up with as many >> words related to that topic as possible. I got this idea one day as I >> was sticking masking tape to pretty much everything around my >> apartment and writing the Lojban word for it in sharpie. I came >> across >> the simple fact that jvs didn't have words for "pot", "kitchen", >> "frying pan", etc., so I came up with words for them, and I think at >> least "kitchen" (jupku'a) is up there. I tried this again with >> computer terminology and it completely failed as nobody could agree >> properly on things (like "window", on which I still harshly/ >> obnoxiously/rudely/insultingly disagree with xorxes). >> >> Rather than having one person sit through some big gehorsenshitfesten >> (parden my German) trying to pick out the most common concepts in the >> universe, why don't we use the wiki idea and create "conversational >> categories" under which we can place words (probably a lot of fu'ivla >> and lujvo) relevant to the topic. This will generate a much larger >> and >> relevant body of information, and it's a -much- less daunting task. >> For example, I am a recording engineer, so I would be likely to start >> a "recording technology" topic, and possibly contribute to the >> "music" >> topic as I would be more likely than anybody else to need/use words >> like "Hertz"/"kHz", "microphone", "nearfield monitors", >> "synthesizer", >> "MIDI", "mixing console", "bass", "treble", and I would probably be >> more qualified to determine what kind of terminology in Lojban is the >> most suitable. I'd also be fairly interested in the "kitchen and >> cooking" topic, and I think a great many a newbie would be very >> interested in the "household objects" topic, which would probably >> include a pointer to the "kitchen and cooking" topic and maybe even a >> "bathroom and hygiene" topic. This way people find what interests >> them >> and contribute to topics that they enjoy, which doesn't necessarily >> give an accurate picture of common usage based on an average through >> world cultures, but definitely gives a good sampling of words to use >> in conversation for the types of conversation that people learning >> Lojban would have. It works as a double edged sword (of handiness) in >> that we have people that are going to enjoy working because they're >> learning how to talk about things that interest them by contributing >> (which means things are more likely to get added, being that it's fun >> and not a chore) -AND- that we have quick 'topic reference' >> dictionaries so you can just leave the list open and peak through to >> make it easier to carry on conversations about what an arse your >> government leader is without having to poke through a list for ten >> minutes while the conversation has already passed because you >> wanted a >> word for "idiot" and jvs only had "stupid" as a gloss word for >> tolmencre. (Bad example, you get the picture.) >> >> Perhaps we can quickly brainstorm a few major topics just to have >> something up on a wiki? >> >> household items >> kitchen and cooking >> bathroom and hygiene >> sports and spectating >> automotive and driving >> computer ((hot topic, prone to arguments)) >> music >> politics and law >> school and education >> work and the workplace >> friends and family >> >> The idea would be to have a big list of topics (and possibly >> subtopics), and on the pages of each we have brief glosses with >> Lojban >> words, with links to a page detailing the place structure, examples >> of >> usage, actual usage example if available, and potentially a relevant >> image (for those that learn by seeing and not reading). >> >> Perhaps under "household items" is "garage", and on the page for that >> it includes a little link for "see section: automotive and driving", >> and perhaps even "garage" is also located under "automotive and >> driving" or somesuch. >> >> Neatonifty idea, right? >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en >> . >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en > . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.