From 3c1m1SwcJBs04HC4xBFz5t14.v75472ut6z77z4xzA7D8B.v75@groups.bounces.google.com Thu Apr 01 19:42:21 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f158.google.com ([209.85.210.158]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3c1m1SwcJBs04HC4xBFz5t14.v75472ut6z77z4xzA7D8B.v75@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NxWps-0001KC-Dc for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:42:20 -0700 Received: by yxe30 with SMTP id 30sf1546877yxe.17 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:42:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:x-goomoji-body:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=L0Hmuqoabok1Prtl1GgVZ8Qmzj3oDZB7bs+CpmKt0Qc=; b=61ErDAfecoeQbWphjK1ymkvcObpQjBMYIZUVNsUdZe+LtRTisGlja5EylApE24Jprf gBrv/qouZ1SBiCLj6HEjsMVJJQdqvFlXopXMKd1ohQU0jXrBsxz/KrNcYL5K3cZdOZ6u 1LpcIHDP0rzG/hd7xy0Uu7pOqHYYZLFsWNI24= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references :x-goomoji-body:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=2uEvZZ54ocDJ4cgXtYcZJ9QdkQs3txdzoPx2Uw5DAgEk440LCs+CIe15d8harN1fLb Bf98FpLw8M1ld5T14rYTzKnAynpmiEDqbsxMNlEPm1Dkw3YRm9soirOkrH5h+hbhaLYF z3V7Go/ZKsw5x/sbiT21WM2gbA7FBAnRbuOjA= Received: by 10.91.133.13 with SMTP id k13mr252972agn.27.1270176115148; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:41:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.90.248.13 with SMTP id v13ls361887agh.7.p; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.2.16 with SMTP id 16mr3470286agb.8.1270176112689; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.2.16 with SMTP id 16mr3470283agb.8.1270176112588; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f172.google.com (mail-yw0-f172.google.com [209.85.211.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si384617yxe.1.2010.04.01.19.41.51; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.211.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.211.172; Received: by ywh2 with SMTP id 2so1188574ywh.33 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:41:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.242.9 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 19:41:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <633B09E0-855E-4A29-B03C-F3CD157CE0DA@gmail.com> References: <2320FCB7-86FE-4E30-9F24-DAD6E40024D7@evertype.com> <5715b9301003291055w30fb5313p8bd52a84f7fa1e6a@mail.gmail.com> <20100329205514.GA24462@sdf.lonestar.org> <59210F50-EF9A-4C81-8CF0-E2B1AE760F9C@gmail.com> <633B09E0-855E-4A29-B03C-F3CD157CE0DA@gmail.com> X-Goomoji-Body: true Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 22:41:50 -0400 Received: by 10.101.130.13 with SMTP id h13mr3915184ann.47.1270176111278; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: MorphemeAddict To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.211.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/3173295d663aabb7 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=0016e68dbad8ea4fc8048337ebb8 --0016e68dbad8ea4fc8048337ebb8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e68dbad8ea4fc5048337ebb7 --0016e68dbad8ea4fc5048337ebb7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I just recently bought a copy of this Yiddish translation of *Winnie the Pooh.* [?] The first eleven or so lines are given in Hebrew letters, then the text is repeated and continued in Latin letters. stevo On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Michael Everson wrote: > On 1 Apr 2010, at 20:14, Michael Turniansky wrote: > > > I can't make heads or tales of the Latin transliteration (not to mention > that you cause homophones to know be > > homonyms as well), but I can understand the Yiddish in Yiddish, and it > looks a lot prettier, IMHO. > > Fine, but that's not universal. Yes, it is traditional. But it is by no > means unusual today. For instance, scholar Leonard Wolf translated Winnie > The Pooh unto Yiddish, and this was published with one page in Hebrew script > and the rest in Latin. > > See http://www.amazon.com/VINI-Yiddish-Version-Winnie-Pooh/dp/0525463380/ > > > (Which there again, goes to your purpose in doing your project, and where > it clashes with the old guard of > > lojbanists. > > But not with all Lojbanists, it must be admitted. > > > Are you writing it in Latin to look pretty, or to be correct, or both? > > What, the Yiddish? Or the Lojban? > > > Clearly, the Yiddish in Latin isn't "correct" in any meaningful sense > (Sure, one transliterates short excerpts of stuff in otherwise surrounding > English text, for pragmatic reasons, but I don't think that's an excuse to > do an entire book that way). > > The Cat in the Hat was also done in Yiddish, bi-scriptally (with the > Yiddish in Latin and in Hebrew both). See > http://www.amazon.com/dp/0972693904/ > > > So if you are just interested in doing Alice in Latin alphabets, > > I don't rule out the possibility of a Hebrew-script Yiddish Alice. The > translator and I have agreed to discuss that in due course. But there's no > question that there is a market for a Latin-script Yiddish Alice, as I said: > Carrollians, Germanicists, and Jews who don't find Hebrew script inviting. > And that isn't such an unusual thing. > > > regardless of of language why don't you (warning -- the following is not > a straw man, since you say you don't believe in them anyhow :-) Simply > print a version in "gibberish", which a mathematical algortihm to use > > reasonable word and sentence lengths, and perhaps reasonable > consonant/vowel sequencing. > > Well. I *am* preparing a Shaw alphabet edition. > > > (Gee, I'm glad toady is April 1st, so I can say this stuff adn not be > taken too seriously, but that is exactly > > the kind of vibe I get from you when you dig in your heels about issues > that the linguistic community feels are nonnegotiable points) > > Well, the linguistic community is not all at one on this point. > > I hope to be able to put my thoughts together about narrative and discuss > that in the coming days. > > Michael > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e68dbad8ea4fc5048337ebb7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just recently bought a copy of this Yiddish translation of Winni= e the Pooh.
The first eleven or so lines are given in Hebrew letters, then the tex= t is repeated and continued in Latin letters.
=A0
stevo


On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Michael Everson = <michael.= everson@gmail.com> wrote:
On 1 Apr 2010, at 20:14, Michael Turniansky wrote:
> I can't make heads or tales of the Latin transliteration (not to = mention that you cause homophones to know be
> homonyms as well), but= I can understand the Yiddish in Yiddish, and it looks a lot prettier, IMHO= .

Fine, but that's not universal. Yes, it is traditional. But i= t is by no means unusual today. For instance, scholar Leonard Wolf translat= ed Winnie The Pooh unto Yiddish, and this was published with one page in He= brew script and the rest in Latin.

See http://www.amazon.com/VINI-Yiddish-Version= -Winnie-Pooh/dp/0525463380/

> (Which there again, goes to your purpose in doin= g your project, and where it clashes with the old guard of
> lojbanis= ts.

But not with all Lojbanists, it must be admitted.

> Are you writing it in Latin to look pretty, or t= o be correct, or both?

What, the Yiddish? Or the Lojban?

> Clearly, the Yiddish in Latin isn't "co= rrect" in any meaningful sense (Sure, one transliterates short excerpt= s of stuff in otherwise surrounding English text, for pragmatic reasons, bu= t I don't think that's an excuse to do an entire book that way).
The Cat in the Hat was also done in Yiddish, bi-scriptally (with = the Yiddish in Latin and in Hebrew both). See http://www.amazon.com/dp/0972693904/<= /a>

> So if you are just interested in doing Alice in = Latin alphabets,

I don't rule out the possibility of a Heb= rew-script Yiddish Alice. The translator and I have agreed to discuss that = in due course. But there's no question that there is a market for a Lat= in-script Yiddish Alice, as I said: Carrollians, Germanicists, and Jews who= don't find Hebrew script inviting. And that isn't such an unusual = thing.

> regardless of of language why don't you (war= ning -- the following is not a straw man, since you say you don't belie= ve in them anyhow =A0:-) =A0Simply print a version in "gibberish"= , which a mathematical algortihm to use
> reasonable word and sentence lengths, and perhaps reasonable consonant= /vowel sequencing.

Well. I *am* preparing a Shaw alphabet edit= ion.

> (Gee, I'm glad toady is April 1st, so I can = say this stuff adn not be taken too seriously, but that is exactly
> = the kind of vibe I get from you when you dig in your heels about issues tha= t the linguistic community feels are nonnegotiable points)

Well, the linguistic community is not all at one on this point.
I hope to be able to put my thoughts together about narrative and dis= cuss that in the coming days.

Michael

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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