From lojban+bncCJGY6cDlFhDgxKneBBoECv88PA@googlegroups.com Sat Apr 17 18:38:04 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f160.google.com ([209.85.222.160]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O3JSQ-0004H7-2t; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:38:03 -0700 Received: by pzk32 with SMTP id 32sf1025627pzk.25 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:37:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=MO7vHqQgDaK+fW5yOKJ3bHeXWvRAWLynm+8qTa6Rhj4=; b=diGckKyuzCQ5N4cag8V6Tv7lkeG57X0oLq9ANyxHDysfAn9BER3TlW+3zN1HHNT1QN UeWAij52NuwgzqayeH1HZGR56LTCm8wRG8h2SPkxP05+bcEehugI0sbG4I9rstcix1/K WthbNDcoDeR6yIDZ4BtYbPHgsaoDvgF09qVJI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=3Af5ebclCl2laff0yQUBSxuwKAHLksaeEUjzORfFpsvrxA3yCKJzs+lEgKzG2BYqHI +OogO3drSP5mUqu1xnPac+TKkNjKydhFIXWIMuS8eTMTJOLvXdf8yeD7ozMLwq82jQsP iMSsDV/1Rn0C91OP/9JC4JGfEqGwOi8e0pCo8= Received: by 10.142.247.40 with SMTP id u40mr266704wfh.6.1271554656443; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:37:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.8.28 with SMTP id 28ls6357766wfh.0.p; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.143.85.6 with SMTP id n6mr686977wfl.3.1271554655246; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.143.85.6 with SMTP id n6mr686976wfl.3.1271554655219; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pw0-f49.google.com (mail-pw0-f49.google.com [209.85.160.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19si870751pzk.11.2010.04.17.18.37.34; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.49; Received: by pwj4 with SMTP id 4so2932891pwj.22 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:37:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.109.10 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:37:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Oren Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 09:37:14 +0800 Received: by 10.142.4.1 with SMTP id 1mr1609552wfd.50.1271554654102; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Questions about jorne To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=get.oren@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: get.oren@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lojban is meant for human communication, one result of this is a limited vocabulary size, and reliance on compounds. CWL and EmotionML are not meant for human communication, and rely on [1] extensive and customizable vocabulary, and [2] a directed graph markup. [1] From the specifications: =93Concepts included in any natural language can be the vocaburary of CWL.=93 [1] From the EmotionML specifications, "users can create their custom vocabularies." [2] Note the graph structure of CWL: {cwl.unl} tim(begin.@entry.@past,long ago) mod(city.@def,Babylon) plc(begin.@entry.@past,city.@def) agt(begin.@entry.@past,people.@def) obj(begin.@entry.@past,build.@past) agt(build,people.@def) obj(build,tower) aoj(huge,tower) aoj(seem.@past,tower) obj(seem.@past,reach.@begin.@soon) obj(reach.@begin.@soon,tower) gol(reach.@begin.@soon,heaven.@def.@pl) {/cwl.unl} [2] EmotionML uses the following ontologies: Attitudes Established emotion Emergent emotion (full-blown) Emergent emotion (suppressed) Moods Partial emotion (topic shifting) Partial emotion (simmering) Stance towards person Stance towards object/situation Interpersonal bonds Altered state of arousal Altered state of control Altered state of seriousness Emotionless ...Can lojban allow that? A brief embedded triple structure for a forty-one-type-of-relation directed graph markup? Sure, but but it wont be intelligible lojban. A limitless vocabulary? The discussion began because we're trying to work up to a 6000 word dictionary... endless additions don't seem feasible. An expansion of emotional ontology, and allowing of custom vocabulary? Doesn't seem that Lojban is designed to be that flexible. My above questions are probably due to my misunderstanding of the specifications of Jorne; it makes much more sense to try and describe [finite] lojban in terms of these frameworks, and not try and, like these frameworks, attempt to describe [infinite] natural language text and emotion. And I could be way off. I haven't seen any source code either. On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 00:57, Lindar wrote: > > > Lojban, as a human language, can't offer what these robust proposals > > describe-- that is, you can't really argue that lojban is any more > > 'readable' than these languages, nor believe that it would be briefer o= r > > more thorough; but it may be fun to try and define the entire lojban > > vocabulary using these technologies. Or maybe that's what you meant all > > along? > > Uhhh... that looks like a slightly unreadable version of Lojban using > English words. > I really fail to see the difference here, so I gather you're saying > "Lojban can't do what this thing does that looks like a shitty/ > inadequate version of Lojban." ? I'm really confused about your > meaning. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.