From lojban+bncCJGY6cDlFhDLkKveBBoE5tb9Sg@googlegroups.com Sun Apr 18 01:52:54 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O3QFF-0001dM-1x; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:52:54 -0700 Received: by pvb32 with SMTP id 32sf1165110pvb.16 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:52:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=dAbfuYojsujVSA6mLwhUjMO8bTCmKdvZEP++/QZkroM=; b=jQ5LEEnhuNSy/iLZzx24cPqIe9DzLgz3v6EMvXracZ3h/7HjZ3GOkhR+rNjFwbPivJ YvOT5HHYHNUgL6DOzNVoxdDDyH4jOP4WsWIAASdamr91U9S19DjXwNcrUdCno6bPDU1Q T95gksy/RBVb4PQmI9lSKWXyFc6Fh84bGPvjE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Ac5GFgznGXsUmhaPss0Z0ZBuGDNPe3miMr0SPsMy99EiP34SG0iRLqFcIdqG60t3+y ztcjnLHRAVfy5WcRiF3vb19nEvyfCzVwkSCXq7IALVfIhZokhIWLpF9ZV58jD/SGgp0c rDJD/T/UmF5XXMhPo+UFeXTudp/gV/3br8YkI= Received: by 10.140.82.9 with SMTP id f9mr547734rvb.6.1271580747283; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:52:27 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.141.188.22 with SMTP id q22ls7943285rvp.1.p; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.57.11 with SMTP id f11mr767612rva.12.1271580745792; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.57.11 with SMTP id f11mr767611rva.12.1271580745768; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pw0-f42.google.com (mail-pw0-f42.google.com [209.85.160.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19si940168pzk.7.2010.04.18.01.52.24; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.42; Received: by mail-pw0-f42.google.com with SMTP id 8so2514537pwi.1 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:52:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.109.10 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:52:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4BCABD70.4090303@lojban.org> References: <67c00d0e-2eb5-430c-917a-16aebaed7afb@j37g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> <4BCABD70.4090303@lojban.org> From: Oren Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:52:04 +0800 Received: by 10.142.250.23 with SMTP id x23mr1554851wfh.214.1271580744196; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Questions about jorne To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=get.oren@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: get.oren@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for not being more clear, this has nothing to do with the dictionary project (hence the new subject line). Perhaps it was a mistake to message the whole list; my question regards the goals of a particular project, namely 'jorne.' My question was 'what are the goals?' The citations were to demonstrate similar projects are designing complex languages from scratch to meet similar goals, as devil's advocacy arguing against adapting Lojban for such tasks, my interpretation of jorne's description. .u'u co'o ro do On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 16:06, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG wrote: > Lindar wrote: >> >> NOTE: Skip to the bottom for the short version. > > While Oren quoted your post in his reply, he was not replying to you, but > rather to Brian Eubanks who posted about his Jorne project. > > http://jorne.sourceforge.net/ > > Jorne is not a dictionary, and only vaguely related to a dictionary proje= ct, > being more akin to the sort of artificial intelligence applications I > mentioned a few days ago. =A0It might be possible to explain it in > non-technical English you seem to want, I'm not the one to do it. =A0But = it > involves using Lojban as a tool for exploring data that has been > appropriately linked for such exploration. > >>> A limitless vocabulary? The discussion began because we're trying to >>> work up to a 6000 word dictionary... endless additions don't seem >>> feasible. >> >> You seem to be missing some big key here. We are, right now, >> documenting vocabulary to be used in common conversation, > > Jorne would need vocabulary documented to be used in "computer conversati= on" > of a sort. =A0That vocabulary has to be defined in a certain way to be so > usable. > >> Maybe, instead of being pessimistic, you could help the BPFK >> translation project or Conversation Guide project so we can actually >> have a finished product to use as source-material for a dictionary? =3DD > > There are many other projects going on in the Lojban world besides those > two. > >> I think whatever this is that >> you're proposing is completely unrelated to the dictionary effort, > > Almost completely so, but it could certainly make use of any dictionary > results, if the dictionary were designed with such application in mind. > >> so let's drop that idea entirely from the conversation. > > He posted under a different subject line, indicating that it was a differ= ent > conversation. > >> What, EXACTLY, are you suggesting we do with 'jorne', and what is it >> meant to accomplish? > > See the link above (and the links therein), but they use the jargon of > computer-language design and AI. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_web > http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-features/ > > are two that seemed relevant to Oren's comments, but I won't pretend to > fully understand them myself. > > lojbab > -- > Bob LeChevalier =A0 =A0lojbab@lojban.org =A0 =A0www.lojban.org > President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.