From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDX5LLeBBoEpVn8XQ@googlegroups.com Mon Apr 19 12:43:45 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f198.google.com ([209.85.217.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O3wsg-0005g3-32; Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:43:45 -0700 Received: by gxk22 with SMTP id 22sf4317611gxk.4 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:43:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=1apUHbkNUxQoPd5P6JGRBfN/uG5lOiX5NJA4QvK6eAg=; b=JvdLmWNnQUtO97WRrk7d7a4AXLvDLiwq1lGL+f7/TkrnnbKK0+teGn5wj1OcXeq8PL UixPgaglrs1gq50xpj2F1iKpiCL3vm2BmssawVYrx0j6czpUv25QoPtnKetxIQqiaDr2 J2Ckt2R4xLCM+ca7btg8sbyBykbvSfwNPeQ0Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=l/bh314xaj26Xk9SCSG2vS0HADDMSAVVqUe8FX/ld2zbCBdA+RcibSs6NpmWTEdr03 PM8oN2OKH97q17qc5DZGAaWCY5+yG4ySu5xBparw7a62tjritx6aTLxwhMNAwWU6DTEO xeBZdVqYypmnmj3vNw8BbetGXrnrQfgOHZID0= Received: by 10.150.250.5 with SMTP id x5mr469399ybh.13.1271706199822; Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:43:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.149.35 with SMTP id b35ls11715637ano.5.p; Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.158.10 with SMTP id k10mr4099587ano.13.1271706199174; Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.158.10 with SMTP id k10mr4099586ano.13.1271706199116; Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.120]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id j16si8291365ann.0.2010.04.19.12.43.17; Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.120 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.120; Received: (qmail 92369 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Apr 2010 19:43:17 -0000 Message-ID: <491909.91967.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: di9_2BQVM1lifXEc01B81wCMQ0wSD99D1uV3fD4AsNJ7e8h LVz6y6uDc3plxfOG4b3ClJwbcKXTgXfoO31OVeFioptOpCGrOdMT7fnnKNKQ VBsps.UJuBMSULwQre.jqZM04SAo1V_MahgtmpUaS0P8B8.TlY_rLLqhoySh MUn3d_G7E7bTF8Z17l6Iv1vox52vDOp4sQafngcBS9CQYpjNYHJzE3q4N_S7 tX4ScxQ6wr5oUc.1LoZzrqJtB063tUNhDechtZ2IZ6YyU4SkeJkVjKH.vtoJ n9oRbq7gScH5BbObGDee9b.Yt3dI188rQHm4sl5ZZhzgERUhwMeu_X3L6SGJ jyC.7lcQOazYCz6J4jKjkULtBBN99339eLkbN Received: from [71.14.73.129] by web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:43:17 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/348.5 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <4BC9056F.9040705@gmail.com> <618898.68218.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <381899.30620.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <851523.82178.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <991859.82338.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:43:17 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] {le} in xorlo To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.120 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, I was talking about class, you about function in a particular case. = But I don't remember an internal quantifier/cardinals in the examples unde= r discussion. Externally, it is a cardinal, too: the number of things out o= f the indicated brodas that brode. The interesting question is, how hard is it to reintroduce the singular qua= ntifier into plural quantification. Not oo0, I suppose, but likely to be m= essy in the metatheory. ----- Original Message ---- From: Jorge Llamb=EDas To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, April 19, 2010 10:44:02 AM Subject: Re: [lojban] {le} in xorlo On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:23 AM, John E Clifford wr= ote: > WTF? 'su'o' is not a quantifier, only a cardinal? In "su'o lo su'o broda cu brode", the first "su'o" is a logical quantifier, the bridi operator: '(Ex ...) ... ', the second one is just a cardinality, the number of referents of the sumti "lo broda". So I can't say what "su'o" is in itself, only what it is used as in a given syntactic context. The same words that are used as logical quantifiers in Lojban are also used as cardinals. > Okay, so we need a (rarely used) plural universal quantifier. Do we need= an explicitly singular -- or plural -- particular quantifier? Not so obvio= usly; I can't think off hand of a case where singularity or plurality was s= o important but not explicitly stated. I agree that taking "su'o" as a plural quantifier would not be all that harmful. Nowhere near as harmful as taking "ro" to be the plural universal quantifier, anyway. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.