From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDNirjeBBoEh4BEEg@googlegroups.com Tue Apr 20 12:50:08 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O4JSF-0000Pg-MN; Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:50:03 -0700 Received: by vws20 with SMTP id 20sf1697224vws.16 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:49:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tyFYnArv6hoR+5nkuDIC3mtM3o0Qaaufif+ivQlJumc=; b=5ISpmzD1T4HZzX52RClvom5+r9ep6BP/eP0xtajZPpDs5qrQlgWrNJ4abf5u+ek/H/ wMygeGO/MBrmjtsjfaGYZ0eQUQUWaUVofTEUoS3g+NJCEtuYO65Me8NmXtSPSlhEG4hu 8G0i5aREbixGAIyTIDzY0WgS0oQUYwJy9iomw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=iBD3OhtyJ1NGvftedfGsa6qcAFJdqqVLJNDUnIjg6qowCttl4QzM5ICa33VvvV+9O/ I1o7XC0d8asMW6EfCiJoYdT1cRxH1gPw0TTrqN1qdoftalA2tRmruq8Ulq5ippebOFfG 3DQFnML50kRrY2pS3Od/6cm5UbxTEj15f/sjc= Received: by 10.220.107.154 with SMTP id b26mr552699vcp.18.1271792973575; Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:49:33 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.47.17 with SMTP id l17ls15948262vcf.5.p; Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.76.203 with SMTP id d11mr1565722vck.11.1271792972141; Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.76.203 with SMTP id d11mr1565721vck.11.1271792972109; Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f187.google.com (mail-qy0-f187.google.com [209.85.221.187]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l27si3281390vcr.6.2010.04.20.12.49.31; Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.187 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.187; Received: by mail-qy0-f187.google.com with SMTP id 17so859747qyk.9 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:49:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.79.75 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:49:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <931037.70565.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6a2c862a-91f0-452e-9a31-0064620d5d06@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> <931037.70565.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 16:49:30 -0300 Received: by 10.229.224.133 with SMTP id io5mr6626918qcb.37.1271792970647; Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] About plural 'ro' From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.187 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:46 AM, John E Clifford wr= ote: > =A0=A0The example was of friends and it might be argued that "is a friend= of" can take pluralities in both slots. I think the relevant predicate was "owns", not "is a friend of". "is a friend of" was only used as a description. The example was: ro lo pendo be mi cu ponse pa karce Where the referents of "lo pendo be mi" were the members of the set {A, B, = C}. Now, we could use any other sumti there with the same referents, it doesn't matter much whether "pendo" is a singular predicate or not. Let's just use "ko'a", where we assign "ko'a goi lo pendo be mi" at some earlier stage. Then the bridi in question is: ro ko'a cu ponse pa karce If "ro" is singular, that's like saying: A ponse pa karce B ponse pa karce C ponse pa karce but if "ro" is plural, we are also saying that: A&B ponse pa karce A&C ponse pa karce B&C ponse pa karce A&B&C ponse pa karce With singular "ro": "Each one of them owns a car." With plural "ro": "Any one or more of them own one car." It doesn't matter much how "them" got its referents. The question is, which is the most common thing to say? I think it's the singular "ro". In English, out of each/every/all/any, only "any" can really be used (with some effort) as a plural "ro". All the others seem to be always singular. "All" can be collective, but hardly the plural universal. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.