From lojban+bncCMvjp-TQBRC4p8PeBBoEij7M5A@googlegroups.com Thu Apr 22 15:55:15 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f202.google.com ([209.85.217.202]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O55Ib-0003aY-Kd; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:55:14 -0700 Received: by gxk26 with SMTP id 26sf7733090gxk.10 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:55:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:date :in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent:x-http-useragent:received :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=H22ZoMj3f7y433zeVOwsh++FeBWs5zTmZb23WbZaOOI=; b=wSAF0T4uXRwO8Ffbund/PfSVF9+C/IkI4i7YiUGE1xxbMuDqexubaAa1hU6kQUEzjX UQYNEs+1+K/HesZb8CHG41vaBCS3mypVVO9QylWXfIFR4N5r5kGlDSABfYQ+Xm9RdeOJ AmZ0D+z7Fqxxg+PYi45K3Ab0TAZs8N26tKdfs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip :references:user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=OWH21gSPQ6Ck5wgaaY7eNpKIyqlHEU+77LEp6UmN2Yn3+97460v/W1GobRBc4J7B8O xX/nk266q0LWq9xAdD998ki0BCKIM4e2Pg/bBJnrbxuuM7em5MYD3ujfxkiri8yWs1iH /W8J0e4MeiLAKy+oniMdPu/aTQfXVXTe0+u9Y= Received: by 10.150.174.5 with SMTP id w5mr1357427ybe.46.1271976888071; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:54:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.93.10 with SMTP id v10ls28927300agl.3.p; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.91.49.14 with SMTP id b14mr3887002agk.14.1271976887398; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.91.49.14 with SMTP id b14mr3887001agk.14.1271976887374; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f187.google.com (mail-gy0-f187.google.com [209.85.160.187]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 17si47983gxk.0.2010.04.22.15.54.47; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.187 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.187; Received: by mail-gy0-f187.google.com with SMTP id 1so7720084gyf.24 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:54:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by b6g2000yqi.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:54:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4BC36464.8010707@gmail.com> X-IP: 83.227.66.222 References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <20100409014708.GB11541@digitalkingdom.org> <4BBF197D.6080601@lojban.org> <20100409222518.GN11541@digitalkingdom.org> <4BC02ABC.8000300@lojban.org> <4BC1D15A.5030409@lojban.org> <4BC36464.8010707@gmail.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_2; en-US) AppleWebKit/533.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/5.0.342.9 Safari/533.2,gzip(gfe) Received: by 10.100.241.2 with SMTP id o2mr1093515anh.13.1271976887339; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6d4d93ea-e660-4ad1-8910-02ddbb96f48c@b6g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: {le} in xorlo (was: Re: Response to Robin's "Essay on the future of Lojban" From: Daniel Brockman To: lojban X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.187 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dbrockman@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: dbrockman@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Apr 12, 8:20=A0pm, And Rosta wrote: > > I'm also wondering whether there exists an experimental > specific KOhA, a nonanaphoric "it/them". (I think I used to > use "le du" in lieu of such.) I've been using {le co'e} for this for quite a while, and I too wish I had a KOhA for it. It feels like a language hole. ---- By the way, I think the non-veridical aspect of {le} ought to be dropped (rendering {le blabi zdani cu cusku} invalid.) Why conflate two separate semantics in one gadri? Let's just have {le blabi zdani} mean {zo'e'e noi blabi zdani}. These basic gadri need to be simple and well-defined, and we're almost there with xorlo. After all, if you want to talk about the White House, why not simply say {la blabi zdani}? And if you want to talk about a computer mouse, just make a vague tanru and say {lo smacu co'e} (rather than {le smacu}). Right? Who uses the non-veridicality anyway? -- Daniel Brockman daniel@brockman.se --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.