From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDEvsPeBBoEDJUjGA@googlegroups.com Thu Apr 22 16:44:32 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O564J-0006fQ-6J; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:44:32 -0700 Received: by vws20 with SMTP id 20sf2784101vws.16 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:44:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=K6fNfg8QtZvXr9WO/d42c6kVGpUEpv2pMOIgtklkR48=; b=19WQRUDHfhCFTp7BB7edrDk1frihjiPAl9/tx0Ch9LC8oBgdk2ZJOkbWFHZ72ShRlI TVh7hMAUglM5+0FjoitdqpG/zY36WhO+blJOAsMQGMsRj/iRxmZ1Fj8iKjf3DvcunaVo KUJqKEJsOtPotZhJYT4L5pTD5+8upVjKGYBVw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=yCnPnHy7RZTnk/Hl00yYMb2Bd87VYqXGPlssbcJ/WRpEdTYkpoHiI7HJr7nYsXOaRq N0qQpvhlZlpvXa2u5/QVqu9KtRCxhUjfamjcB73V6dJyENKT03vxqaVNOq+8yEZJ4SU/ 2OCZ+ZIjuGK2RAVSAcYlMMr2CXVzn0s3MV50w= Received: by 10.220.107.165 with SMTP id b37mr863557vcp.51.1271979844911; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:44:04 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.47.17 with SMTP id l17ls26624776vcf.5.p; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.167.206 with SMTP id r14mr2352084vcy.0.1271979843851; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.167.206 with SMTP id r14mr2352083vcy.0.1271979843831; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f193.google.com (mail-qy0-f193.google.com [209.85.221.193]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id b14si339857vcx.1.2010.04.22.16.44.02; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.193 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.193; Received: by qyk31 with SMTP id 31so11522109qyk.20 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:44:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.79.75 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:44:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <822558.3911.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6a2c862a-91f0-452e-9a31-0064620d5d06@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> <225049.90411.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <734238.40743.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4BD060B7.5020903@gmail.com> <402483.50291.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <822558.3911.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:44:02 -0300 Received: by 10.229.227.10 with SMTP id iy10mr559560qcb.55.1271979842569; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] About plural 'ro' From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.193 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 8:26 PM, John E Clifford wro= te: > > [Okay, lets take the the people who carried today. =A0There are 15 groups= , each of them referents of the term. None of the 15 groups are referents of the term. It's the members of those groups that are referents of the term. >=A0How do we get down from that to the five people actually involved -- wh= ich five are not in fact referents of the term, since they don't carry toge= ther. They don't have to carry all together or all by themselves or in any other particular distribution in order to be referents of the term. They just have to carry. The manner, whether together, in groups, taking turns, at the same time, in different arrangements at different times, etc, if important, has to be specified by some other means. > That is, though the referents at different times today were different (no= t a problem), the question is about the referent for today as a whole. =A0 = We're not seeking added precision here, we are just trying to get to the si= mplest case: the newspaper headline, for example.] Those would be the five. "The people who carried today" refers to the people who carried today. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.