From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDYxsPeBBoEQShFww@googlegroups.com Thu Apr 22 17:01:56 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f137.google.com ([209.85.211.137]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O56L8-0007ko-Ip; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:01:55 -0700 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf2515845ywh.28 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:01:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=GjfblGtDHsEqbMJYi2dYR29m9Dwf/JoKLSBN3Q6YJXc=; b=Xg0DzZg6qkM9VgQllilHXZ80SBZh/GeAEHKphXZKN0jKa5UzLrhWvhsMJVISZiPPkO 1XSUAUOxDgZvQAn/RonSLQHkbytUcbPLdoWx+qns9nHF/8jMNYSX/hnQGCI0sDQDysNH sFXDHQ9DdwFPTe26rXAxdTZe7eCdbn2kPn+qQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Oafbx3ygk48jArXM7VL5BUJU5NoWVQOAE+NhDlAk810hAH1LQY6XyMt9F3xE3XksXe 5vJUMPbfcmt0FCgv+oFgoR6f0DRjGXOs7JB0pGIkCvHe/W267G7IP9U6ruPDY+K5YpE6 oGMC8b0/OT7vZEC7kiL2iDDAn/RQzrftaA9/U= Received: by 10.101.165.40 with SMTP id s40mr1129210ano.15.1271980888782; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:01:28 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.145.21 with SMTP id x21ls25154668ann.3.p; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.200.36 with SMTP id c36mr7792009anq.20.1271980888258; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.200.36 with SMTP id c36mr7792006anq.20.1271980888187; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.122]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id 12si51797gxk.6.2010.04.22.17.01.26; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.122 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.122; Received: (qmail 92099 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Apr 2010 00:01:26 -0000 Message-ID: <561527.86938.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: CiiNY04VM1lUaL0VOcpBP0b6jx73.H.eH._EV3OTRzS1.ol 1oz.Aop01z.Ui_IgbAT5YQt733jO2yfDw1EJP5.SELCHj9xj6s1G4MFQIrav EvIQIfxhZ17wZAhdWYGYBxidlgoZFuuIUxhsVzBhiztCpD7TdOul24JDD0q1 Jdc1x3Fh86zbbTfNMSHCuHuvi4daJPTugtTVWwbrLMWsQ9Cid9wsoCUSv4Bx b40Gej6IgeAlUkMvjj5TJNpW7nEzo16nK6ffpnv0XNKoxGxjHnipF_QD8Q5S 8wv_1fwVr0LITkBO0d_DdMmm.djZqaLulHcL0rzGLTZSydHXiopu8O0EnJr8 _ZVd9ipGc7w-- Received: from [71.14.73.129] by web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:01:26 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/348.5 YahooMailWebService/0.8.102.267879 References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <20100409014708.GB11541@digitalkingdom.org> <4BBF197D.6080601@lojban.org> <20100409222518.GN11541@digitalkingdom.org> <4BC02ABC.8000300@lojban.org> <4BC1D15A.5030409@lojban.org> <4BC36464.8010707@gmail.com> <6d4d93ea-e660-4ad1-8910-02ddbb96f48c@b6g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:01:26 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: {le} in xorlo (was: Re: Response to Robin's "Essay on the future of Lojban" To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <6d4d93ea-e660-4ad1-8910-02ddbb96f48c@b6g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.122 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 ----- Original Message ---- From: Daniel Brockman To: lojban Sent: Thu, April 22, 2010 5:54:47 PM Subject: [lojban] Re: {le} in xorlo (was: Re: Response to Robin's "Essay on the future of Lojban" On Apr 12, 8:20 pm, And Rosta wrote: > > I'm also wondering whether there exists an experimental > specific KOhA, a nonanaphoric "it/them". (I think I used to > use "le du" in lieu of such.) I've been using {le co'e} for this for quite a while, and I too wish I had a KOhA for it. It feels like a language hole. ---- By the way, I think the non-veridical aspect of {le} ought to be dropped (rendering {le blabi zdani cu cusku} invalid.) Why conflate two separate semantics in one gadri? Let's just have {le blabi zdani} mean {zo'e'e noi blabi zdani}. These basic gadri need to be simple and well-defined, and we're almost there with xorlo. {Sorry, but doesn't 'noi' exactly amount to "what I am calling" with no guarantees?] After all, if you want to talk about the White House, why not simply say {la blabi zdani}? And if you want to talk about a computer mouse, just make a vague tanru and say {lo smacu co'e} (rather than {le smacu}). Right? Who uses the non-veridicality anyway? [Notoriously, Mickey Spillane and whoever wrote the Crying Game. And that is just in a short span of time and a limited number of works.} -- Daniel Brockman daniel@brockman.se -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.