From 3Dx22SwcJBi4OiOYXecQWKSV.MYWVYTLKXQYYQVOQbYeZc.MYW@groups.bounces.google.com Fri Apr 02 09:36:56 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f160.google.com ([209.85.211.160]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3Dx22SwcJBi4OiOYXecQWKSV.MYWVYTLKXQYYQVOQbYeZc.MYW@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NxjrY-0001tN-Qa for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:36:56 -0700 Received: by ywh32 with SMTP id 32sf2492340ywh.28 for ; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:36:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=NLlB1Mb0dZaC0dOoRolYLAmOqzFAqlfBRrli/G0j55c=; b=JMyCxUqd+oJ46ogONj3zwIzmvoDXhMbN8cDwXloP1hnqeSaBdHSikKzRwYnn/5/qEi kUUpvqoh9cMzsFuK+WBkce9LYVE6KQ6BAB76DUZup040A5aTHxyg+RSO+zkKTbAZSNRQ 1aHkHjjTVjYF54FOVXTX1Yj6WgjzWAE/UET1Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=TsGcCZ8AYuTOycGf1UP9evsow2+CSi4vF2AiJYsgz3uLxcZh+a/3MAbEu9uuqboBH5 GOaXNYibt08PVgQic8i1oqOI3aHNQryQWsnqENgJ1FdgZMiZtmhrMavJS1VMCrwYdDbi QcPU48ov7Gu7uEMLnsGuHC/P2K0kdUUw5ZjLA= Received: by 10.91.93.10 with SMTP id v10mr342045agl.18.1270226191615; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:36:31 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.35.68 with SMTP id o4ls1243397bkd.1.p; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.148.65 with SMTP id o1mr141325bkv.5.1270226189739; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.148.65 with SMTP id o1mr141324bkv.5.1270226189696; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f181.google.com (mail-wy0-f181.google.com [74.125.82.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id v26si9613325bkt.7.2010.04.02.09.36.28; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.181; Received: by wyj26 with SMTP id 26so704241wyj.12 for ; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:36:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.30.146 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Apr 2010 09:36:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201004012236.43061.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 10:36:28 -0600 Received: by 10.216.90.208 with SMTP id e58mr1347087wef.57.1270226188327; Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Summary: Cultural fu'ivla From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/6edf3f52e6f491ba X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/c75af283c6012596 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6db2ae7bd59ba0483439468 --0016e6db2ae7bd59ba0483439468 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 9:07 PM, Christopher Doty wrote: > On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 19:36, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > I'd dispense with them unless it's easier to make a type-4 with them. For >> instance, from "isiXhosa" I made "sitlosa" (there is nothing resembling a >> click in Lojban, so I picked something vaguely similar to the sound). But >> for "Nyankore" I'd say "niankore". Similarly, Uw Olkola (an Australian >> language closely related to Uw Oykangand) I call "olkola", and Guugu >> Yimidhirr could be "iimdiri" (or "bangrjimidiri" for type-3). > > > Are these documented anywhere? The problem with doing this on an ad-hoc > basis, as was suggested before, is that without them at least listed > somewhere, I'd have no idea whatsoever how to look up "Uw Oykangand" in > Lojban, or even if someone had yet coined a term for it. If people > seriously want Lojban to take on an international aspect (as I would like to > see, especially in the realm of international scholarship) I fail to see how > doing this "ad hoc" accomplishes anything except a complete muck of > different people using different words. > Isn't the point of this project to *get* them documented? I know that some of these, at least, are on a wiki page, I don't see any problem from putting the full list on that page. And once the list is complete, anyone new jbopre that ask "What's the Lojban word for [insert language here] will be pointed to aforementioned wiki page. > (And, yes, I know this is not at issue right now, while the community is > small, but someday, hopefully, there will be a bunch of people using Lojban > whom you have never met. Unless the goal of free use is to have Lojban > fracture into a whole slew of different dialects, I just don't see how > having this continue ad hoc is productive. (It's also kind of weird, > because it ends up being first-come, first-served, but that's another issue, > I suppose.)) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e6db2ae7bd59ba0483439468 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 9:07 PM, Christopher Doty= <suomichris@g= mail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 19:36, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.o= ptus.nu> wrote:

I'd dispense with them unles= s it's easier to make a type-4 with them. For
instance, from "i= siXhosa" I made "sitlosa" (there is nothing resembling a
click in Lojban, so I picked something vaguely similar to the sound). Butfor "Nyankore" I'd say "niankore". Similarly, Uw = Olkola (an Australian
language closely related to Uw Oykangand) I call &= quot;olkola", and Guugu
Yimidhirr could be "iimdiri" (or "bangrjimidiri" for ty= pe-3).

Are these documented anywhere? =A0The problem with doing this on an ad= -hoc basis, as was suggested before, is that without them at least listed s= omewhere, I'd have no idea whatsoever how to look up "Uw Oykangand= " in Lojban, or even if someone had yet coined a term for it. =A0If pe= ople seriously want Lojban to take on an international aspect (as I would l= ike to see, especially in the realm of international scholarship) I fail to= see how doing this "ad hoc" accomplishes anything except a compl= ete muck of different people using different words.
=A0
Isn't the point of this project to *get* them documented? I know t= hat some of these, at least, are on a wiki page, I don't see any proble= m from putting the full list on that page. And once the list is complete, a= nyone new jbopre that ask "What's the Lojban word for [insert=A0la= nguage here] will be pointed to aforementioned wiki page.
=A0
(And, yes, I know this is not at issue right now, while the community = is small, but someday, hopefully, there will be a bunch of people using Loj= ban whom you have never met. =A0Unless the goal of free use is to have Lojb= an fracture into a whole slew of different dialects, I just don't see h= ow having this continue ad hoc is productive. =A0(It's also kind of wei= rd, because it ends up being first-come, first-served, but that's anoth= er issue, I suppose.))

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
=

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