From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDP4cjeBBoE-1uIIA@googlegroups.com Fri Apr 23 16:44:42 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O5SY1-0004pl-V5; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:44:42 -0700 Received: by vws20 with SMTP id 20sf3221796vws.16 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:44:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jCC7p04m5uqdpXxOjpVXErsB6frQpVUtLKMy0QsOlbY=; b=VKuZgrmnYNoL7BU4w4RtP2hZCC4HayTpY0FzsYaTIU0++EbUQwq363MnmO2QkBcN2l hcJolDF6z040WpsuTBZ5Veycga5g1rk6BzZmO66MTRzU1hmNsKv6t73JCfpoTIyF7dGr EIqJdgJK0kgbFL29cLcSy9Fe9Gpu9qI3IaVsQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=GnAPOcmIOZWiGGr5dJCi417r50tqbGvx6ilBj81VSRUEG36EGY83CFiDTJBfvk3DGh sdt1DLxINV5CTPYVhfTxIJknvhObY7E66hHvMLOSYo9Htfinyu2yuAJUf4Eub0AnsW7b AmmrdhlIq4Y5GxLYnq8rL3HfkFywQoY9fNex8= Received: by 10.220.107.86 with SMTP id a22mr67892vcp.9.1272066255918; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:44:15 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.68.217 with SMTP id w25ls31127931vci.1.p; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:44:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.168.83 with SMTP id t19mr180420vcy.10.1272066255067; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:44:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.168.83 with SMTP id t19mr180419vcy.10.1272066254998; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f193.google.com (mail-qy0-f193.google.com [209.85.221.193]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z9si1104374vch.7.2010.04.23.16.44.13; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.193 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.193; Received: by qyk31 with SMTP id 31so13358981qyk.20 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:44:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.234.68 with SMTP id kb4mr899931qcb.103.1272066253587; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.79.75 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:44:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4BD22A52.1050609@gmail.com> References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <4BC36464.8010707@gmail.com> <6d4d93ea-e660-4ad1-8910-02ddbb96f48c@b6g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> <7913e18e-b0f2-4b18-bb4d-ecf39ef60f38@v14g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <4BD1EA77.3070908@gmail.com> <4BD22A52.1050609@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 20:44:13 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: {le} in xorlo From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.193 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:16 PM, And Rosta wrote: > Jorge Llamb=EDas, On 23/04/2010 23:31: >> >> =A0 =A0no lo ze prenu (ku) poi pendo mi cu klama lo fasygu'e >> =A0 =A0"None of the seven people who are my friends went to France." >> >> Am I saying that of the seven people who are my friends, none of them >> went to France, or that of the seven people, no friend of mine went to >> France? Without "ku", it's clearly the first, but what happens with >> "ku"? > > Unsurprisingly, my intuitive reading of the ku poi version is the second > one. Yes, I think so too. Especially when considering: =A0 =A0no ko'a poi pendo mi cu klama lo fasygu'e =A0 =A0"None of them that are friends of mine went to France." > Is the lack of two choices for ko'a poi due to syntactic reasons? Yes, "ko'a" only has an outside available where to hang the relative clause= . > It > shouldn't be for semantic reasons. If "ko'a" is equivalent to "lo me ko'a= ", > as I think it should be, then there's the same contrast with "no lo ze me > ko'a (ku) poi pendo mi cu klama lo fasygu'e" and hence "no ko'a (ku) poi > pendo mi cu klama lo fasygu'e". Yes, that makes sense. > Changing the subject, slightly: one of the things about your putative > equivalence between lo ku and zo'e that makes me uncomfortable is that zo= 'e > should arguably include zi'o, but lo ku certainly shouldn't. But that's a= n > issue less to do with logical language than with a specific Lojban bugfix > (i.e. introduction of zi'o to compensate for bad gismu place structures a= nd > perhaps to render usage less erroneous (if empty sumti places can be fill= ed > with zi'o)). I agree. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.