From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCY7MjeBBoETXw5Kg@googlegroups.com Fri Apr 23 17:07:15 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O5Stq-000694-DH; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:07:14 -0700 Received: by vws20 with SMTP id 20sf3226089vws.16 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:07:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=UxhNSQggsqbY8AET43TJpdd0jCHLeOTo9jXHZTHbpCo=; b=vUnKnfKpM9fJq3ShBiUK3KdjiobHpt48VGnOOa0Vj5D/Svp1jajno0WhvU4lPY6Ku0 Vjtpix4GkPM4Wl6/Cc6hcSOmgXQdQArUKpSl6tJy5/44K2Hr5LijAYwplHPzhOOnzZTH SnViNTEFXtsixV9wb16usdXEWWpuyBRlV9MuI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=wGouNNGLlJqV3Wu413ipnqDEn0w+hzyJuO+l6QSclX7y5N2j11nSXhGJuZ9NPpDLyj on/6eWq73X7cbG42QHeMRf4mdNTvzCi1MYH+je+GKBcuTgAHfK6gn3yUGELAKurGaFWL N4R9bI2uE3W2h3E5+FWZGEl6aFxC3wvpjGdlw= Received: by 10.220.83.91 with SMTP id e27mr62488vcl.14.1272067608729; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:06:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.79.85 with SMTP id o21ls30900165vck.0.p; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.163.197 with SMTP id b5mr61994vcy.8.1272067607681; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.163.197 with SMTP id b5mr61993vcy.8.1272067607658; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f191.google.com (mail-qy0-f191.google.com [209.85.221.191]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a10si1120184vci.0.2010.04.23.17.06.46; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.191 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.191; Received: by mail-qy0-f191.google.com with SMTP id 29so5167978qyk.2 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:06:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.181.139 with SMTP id by11mr1033479qcb.1.1272067606429; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.79.75 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:06:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 21:06:46 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] head & modifier in tanru From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.191 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:58 AM, tijlan wrote: > I was thinking about why Lojban has the modifier-head order as the defaul= t > in endocentric tanru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocentric). Because that's how English does it. > In "da brodi drode broda de" > (the head being "broda"), the relationship between each brivla and each > sumti seems more intuitive with their distances being optimally short: "d= a", > which is the merged x1 of "brodi", "brode", and "broda", Not necessarily. da is the x1 of broda, but the roles of brode and brodi can vary. "mi cinfo kalte" could mean that I am a lion and hunter, but more likely it means that I am a lion hunter. "mi cukta tcidu" could mean that I am a book and a reader, but more likely that I am a book reader. > So, in > addition to this possibly Anglo- or Euro-centricity being inappropriate f= or > Lojban, As it happens, Sino-Anglo-centric, but I suspect the Sino- was more by chance than by design. > On second thought, I realised that a head-modifier tanru would have been = a > reverse of its modifier-head lujvo partner, which I'm not sure would have > been convenient. But then again why not head-modifier for lujvo component= s? > Compounds like this certainly exist in natural languages: > > =C2=A0Chinese (SVO): =E5=BD=95=E9=9F=B3 l=C3=B9y=C4=ABn (record-sound -->= sound-recording) > =C2=A0Hebrew (occasionally SVO): =D7=91=D6=B5=D6=BC=D7=99=D7=AA =D7=A1=D6= =B5=D7=A4=D6=B6=D7=A8 bet sefer (house-book --> school) Spanish (mostly SVO): abrelatas (opens-cans --> can-opener) mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.