From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRC5pMzeBBoEy-GgEg@googlegroups.com Sat Apr 24 08:46:26 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O5hYf-0001pQ-T0; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 08:46:25 -0700 Received: by vws20 with SMTP id 20sf3483634vws.16 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 08:46:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=lRWAyfW56U8TcNwUODY4lJYyyf2WgfysxF1LyV77+00=; b=ORLbsBopwerCgbDu/IMmrKtwKNyZptsYMJyNYURphIzQv8Ea/eb0kXumHwAjEeHOq8 7lO63OnoSjboFbh14lXGZYBocXU/IKPzZm10377+kPb7xq5LbnnYFa2n4vV0dIhILeUn Gcfj9CK7pVzUnluR5aCzyzc0gV9ohxRoXDhOQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=RQQLXKjudIhXx8sqefjYUitWtsv7rC5KJIr3PF5+4w+E0H/wlsjg0oJEo8XdfzmSrb FsgYPrNJD40tKT4VDtVe+QX5PdfIj5sAkx2CFf8XIrZy9/VOcehcMFAJZxNT/GzHfeqP bYtiQk8PC13DnQVJKT/jzrpa8TSmecPvLTG1A= Received: by 10.220.109.39 with SMTP id h39mr118201vcp.42.1272123961374; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 08:46:01 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.47.17 with SMTP id l17ls32554629vcf.5.p; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 08:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.76.203 with SMTP id d11mr364813vck.11.1272123960434; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 08:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.76.203 with SMTP id d11mr364812vck.11.1272123960379; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 08:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f200.google.com (mail-qy0-f200.google.com [209.85.221.200]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z9si1594870vch.7.2010.04.24.08.45.59; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 08:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.200 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.200; Received: by qyk38 with SMTP id 38so10540879qyk.5 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 08:45:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.239.4 with SMTP id ku4mr1147459qcb.86.1272123958626; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 08:45:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.79.75 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Apr 2010 08:45:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <7913e18e-b0f2-4b18-bb4d-ecf39ef60f38@v14g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <4BD1EA77.3070908@gmail.com> <4BD22A52.1050609@gmail.com> <603a6f42-f8f0-4072-9c02-63cbcdb39f1c@y14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 12:45:58 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: {le} in xorlo From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.200 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Daniel Brockman wrote: > > What I meant was just that I consider {to'e broda} to be more > or less a completely new predicate (for any {broda}). You mean like: cirko: x1 loses x2 at x3 to'e cirko: x1 finds x2 at x3 canci: x1 vanishes from x2 to'e canci: x1 appears at x2 If someone thinks of to'e as meaning un-, this doesn't work very well, because In English un- doesn't just mean opposite, it means more like undo, so in order to "un-lose"something, it first has to be lost, in order for something to "un-vanish" it first has to have vanished. But "to'e" is just opposite, not undoing, so the opposite of losing is finding and the opposite of vanishing is appearing, and there is no requirement that the thing found had to be lost or the thing that appears had to have disappeared. (The odd thing about these two words in particular is that the "negative" one is the basic root and the "positive" one has to be formed with "to'e", but that's how it is.) mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.