From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDR89DeBBoEFjUn4w@googlegroups.com Sun Apr 25 05:47:41 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O61FH-0004s1-1U; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:47:41 -0700 Received: by vws20 with SMTP id 20sf3779877vws.16 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:47:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=IlC+uqtzjcmarqdGxPS2yWpFzJtfPFILRoIPYdKzgpg=; b=1blg3YdR218oljAairtdWtc8m5n8JERrLgRD5mLov9FVWXUSHkI48yY/5P9AIGIymK GJUoogvh3ID88OAI2cc1GB6wOEpyYhetvEzT9ZpF+bDvrkxcwpW7gYHEwgehl4o063Dk JhtQ4FXX3ckBJWIxie/nNdWP3ozCrsgbheT8I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=o1etf04aHqrntnpZJrerj0Bdv97Pe/b07dpOPh90Bh3H02EAzFii5TWN2qSXYQH5LR xI6UNqsJxD7nqndGSnhCKPXrZe/MTY00UK7EYAOP2iG2KkCDeytjt2X87DOKPn2baNEm FOd7ptVv0FKOOvJ+3lt1nl16vOJ0HZv5xAuo4= Received: by 10.220.158.76 with SMTP id e12mr174061vcx.40.1272199633581; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:47:13 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.47.17 with SMTP id l17ls35123978vcf.5.p; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.46.145 with SMTP id j17mr549005vcf.3.1272199632664; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.46.145 with SMTP id j17mr549004vcf.3.1272199632638; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f180.google.com (mail-qy0-f180.google.com [209.85.221.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z9si2228783vch.3.2010.04.25.05.47.11; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.180; Received: by mail-qy0-f180.google.com with SMTP id 10so15470619qyk.25 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:47:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.91.11 with SMTP id k11mr3009706qcm.50.1272199631446; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.79.75 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:47:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 09:47:11 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Explicit non-restriction From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Daniel Brockman wrote: > > No, because everything is a referent of {ro da} (by definition). Yes, but. Given "ro" as a singular quantifier, everything takes turns being the value of "da", one thing at a time. If you don't have aggregates as things themselves in your universe of discourse, then that puts some limitations to the kinds of claims you can make about "everything", you can only make claims that apply to each thing individually. (Of course aggregates are cheap to add, so that isn't necessarily a big limitation.) The proposed plural quantifier "ro'oi" takes care of that by allowing the bound variable to take any number of values at a time (without having to create an aggregate of them as one thing). So "ro'oi da zo'u da broda" says not only that every one thing brodas but also every two things broda, every three things broda, every four things broda, and so on. >> What if the answer is {no da}? > > You can still answer {no da}. Right, the answer to a question is never limited by the form of the question. How to answer a question is always a matter of pragmatics. The form of the question can only suggest the form of the answer, but if one needs to change the form in order to be truthful, informative, clear and relevant, one should not hesitate to do so. What matters to the person asking something is that you tell them what they want to know, not that you fill in a form properly (at least if they are a person and not a machine or a bureaucrat). mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.