From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDuyNHeBBoEflIiNA@googlegroups.com Sun Apr 25 08:49:30 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O645E-0004CP-Nq; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:49:30 -0700 Received: by vws20 with SMTP id 20sf3828424vws.16 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:49:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=da1uOPZcACeCvDpJKKCfCoRIwrt1V/XyBrw7KhCUoP4=; b=ex2lnnZ7nBB/jD8M2n5+uB7NGI6S4Ey5X/3CPbnOXcKgf9rKHwYMAQoCGIS19ZyAyZ QggkiZFMwOryFCJqZCTc3Lqh6Oah+JFubFcqXB2W9ykE94llJUadzFj/ZpPnci/AhTUl wpPM4+plToEZl4E0s3Ch0waFDOI2r/tyZjXM0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=GKRNfYeXg+0/dmjdf7xZCaNc02yD1b0l6Uf60mEg6WquQz6aicYHlpB3rRMe1te4cz JWx6F8bz3nMaLWr+Nq9eWUc/+sMsxVVKwcaeJRqWKKmow33fV9gLOmn32OnXgL632FIT qkNl45RerPd1tEOxd6uUixP08lTuhoFbcWHEg= Received: by 10.220.126.222 with SMTP id d30mr193460vcs.49.1272210542442; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:49:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.79.22 with SMTP id n22ls35932847vck.3.p; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.168.71 with SMTP id t7mr617462vcy.9.1272210541572; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.168.71 with SMTP id t7mr617461vcy.9.1272210541548; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f197.google.com (mail-qy0-f197.google.com [209.85.221.197]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id b14si2321276vcx.5.2010.04.25.08.49.00; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.197 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.197; Received: by mail-qy0-f197.google.com with SMTP id 35so11192136qyk.11 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:49:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.73.135 with SMTP id q7mr3224821qcj.41.1272210540327; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.79.75 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:49:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <983500.94659.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <4BC36464.8010707@gmail.com> <6d4d93ea-e660-4ad1-8910-02ddbb96f48c@b6g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> <561527.86938.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5f7591f2-cb68-4a39-940c-965a0770343f@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <775037.72228.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <910640.40103.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <971944.73808.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <983500.94659.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:49:00 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] What gets into 'lo broda' From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.197 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 11:38 AM, John E Clifford wr= ote: > > =A0 [btw how to read 'broda cimei' (or whichever mVV i mean) "A triad of = things that broda": is it the things or the triads that broda?] This is how I would define "PA mei": First we define "pamei", "x1 is one": ko'a pamei .ijo ro'oi da poi ke'a me ko'a zo'u da du ko'a "A is one iff for any X among A: X =3D A" then we define "(n+1)mei" using "(n)mei": ko'a (n+1)mei .ijo su'oi da poi pamei zo'u su'oi de poi (n)mei zo'u ge da na me de gi ro'oi di poi ke'a me ko'a zo'u ga di me da gi di me de "A are n+1 iff there's some X which is one and some Y which are n such that X is not among Y and for every Z among A, Z is X or Z are among Y" So by induction we now have (n)mei for every n. "su'o PA mei" is then: ko'a su'o(n)mei .ijo su'oi da poi (n)mei zo'u da me ko'a "A are at least n iff there's some X which are n such that X are among A" su'e, me'i, za'u, ro are equally easy. Now, "(n)mei" actually has an x2 place, "x1 are n of x2". In the above definitions the x2 is assumed to be everything, but the restriction to some particular x2 is: ko'a pamei ko'e .ijo ge ko'a me ko'e gi ko'a pamei A is one of B iff A is among B and A is one (as above) Now, "broda cimei" is a tanru, and tanru are never well defined, but for "cimei be lo broda", "x1 are three of the broda", it should mean that x1 are three and that they are among the broda. "broda cimei", as usual for tanru, is ambiguous between "cimei be lo broda" and "broda je cimei" (and possibly any number of other things). Just like "cinfo kalte" can be a hunter of lions of a lion that hunts, "broda cimei" can be a threesome of brodas or a threesome that brodas. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.