From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCHs9LeBBoEg70U-A@googlegroups.com Sun Apr 25 12:36:02 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f137.google.com ([209.85.211.137]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O67cT-0004AN-GH; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:36:02 -0700 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf4482498ywh.28 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:35:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=bH+j2E3yxGX2tAiuRKDQz2QZ20bui1xQN/6HOTCHbUU=; b=2wThyBuuNbH5l2a9R41iC8adkxcbU/JmI6E0dPBDcn9m5le33sVK1ZAKre+USTwxFV Jui2gDVe6t4a0u/lsJh1bO2h0xNo790GVfK9FBrp5sS2tCmaLN0cITPsgRC8JUVA/kOU JBCPD54yaCykvBCDesk94nqhwUMDfrA35xlaw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Krb+tXgZX13Ugb696kAastGCjo1dQVbKXAy4luGqvtT/ex7HXLab9j1oIBgy+p2j32 Pj8TsciZPZcr4dTIrpsFVCiArhHY2Fay5k1bB9beXAYu9AD7k+kCD73TjOZyeL+WEQYc qTbUFtnbGFZIYVMquibVfT+x2xkRrDFqK6qcQ= Received: by 10.91.160.33 with SMTP id m33mr722673ago.54.1272224135691; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:35:35 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.159.7 with SMTP id l7ls41666004ago.4.p; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.42.40 with SMTP id p40mr1254983agp.3.1272224135237; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.42.40 with SMTP id p40mr1254982agp.3.1272224135209; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.117]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id 18si386751ywh.13.2010.04.25.12.35.33; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.117 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.117; Received: (qmail 91571 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Apr 2010 19:35:33 -0000 Message-ID: <733078.90670.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: OhOJDwYVM1meaQhjYUNFDl3mo8j6xoS5GrAUaC2RjHYcW.M KRVSS8lu.ZoowZvoGHlNl7lUgTeBtz78I3KhARo98_GB_ag6tSGp5xO6sThP dFItMOrIHmvs5iko8XoQXkABi5sgpVscIcP5Bv6eFzqDyZiWHvjwA4DXKiap vz1R0AnU6t9qL2_9NWtVKmSa.w0991T67Bq145l_tcAFKUGA5ogIkEgHadKG ny7fWsqMHfIhChpqcvQtTiFtO30HWZMFCp4nNOcNEnNz3VOGaT2k7hWbs.Cp d6gp.ESP1B0tFzqbtluLVfp76fSTryHsyBfkeBmro1RsGotyXRlr1qvyKzhQ INRAlB7mf3zRqcQIgwnVrZmOujFGd2BAm7o.D6Q-- Received: from [71.14.73.129] by web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:35:33 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/348.5 YahooMailWebService/0.8.102.267879 References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <6d4d93ea-e660-4ad1-8910-02ddbb96f48c@b6g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> <561527.86938.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5f7591f2-cb68-4a39-940c-965a0770343f@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <775037.72228.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <910640.40103.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <971944.73808.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <983500.94659.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <770120.37196.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:35:33 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] What gets into 'lo broda' To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.117 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK, I've almost got it, I think. 're lo cimei be lo broda' will get me som= ewhere between four and six things that are in lo broda, delivered up in th= rees, even if they are not any of them the three that went into composing l= o broda (teams that actually lifted the piano, say -- supposing not all tri= ads succeeded). The satisfaction/realization (not great words) split is st= ill giving a block from time to time, sinc I keep want to take one of these= triads and say that it brodas. Even though I would have no temptation to i= nsist that triad from the group that surrounded the building surrounded the= building (memories of evanescent structures past, I think: C-sets). ----- Original Message ---- From: Jorge Llamb=EDas To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, April 25, 2010 2:12:28 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] What gets into 'lo broda' On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 3:51 PM, John E Clifford wro= te: > > But about the cimeis. Consider 'lo cimei be lo broda. The "'individuals= " in this case seem to have to be triads (of things among lo broda), and re= latively impermeable ones. No, I think they are ordinary individuals: lo cimei be lo broda =3D zo'e noi ke'a cimei lo broda "things, which are three and among the broda >> ko'a (n+1)mei .ijo su'oi da poi pamei zo'u su'oi de poi (n)mei zo'u ge >> da na me de gi ro'oi di poi ke'a me ko'a zo'u ga di me da gi di me de >> "A are n+1 iff there's some X which is one and some Y which are n such >> that X is not among Y and for every Z among A, Z is X or Z are among >> Y" > > [Not quite enough, since for every W among Y, WX is among A but not amon= g Z nor is it X.] Right, I complicated myself unnecessarily. I should have defined the "su'o(n)mei" first, and only then the "(n)mei". "su'o(pa)mei" is true of anything. "su'o(n+1)mei": A are at least n+1 iff there's X among A and Y among A such that X are at least n and Y are not among X Then "su'e(n)mei": A are at most n iff A are not at least n+1 And finally: A are n iff A are at least n and at most n mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.