From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCkmdPeBBoEyVcRzw@googlegroups.com Sun Apr 25 16:14:07 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O6B1W-0006g2-Hu; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 16:14:06 -0700 Received: by vws20 with SMTP id 20sf3929187vws.16 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 16:13:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/mBeiYMkxzvCL7bRQrlJ/8LHtiAb8bAR7/bDcVwj69E=; b=U7Iw0GvcEF+/YWcvjITcV3KD4nJzyTG3ZlnFASOna7Q6+jVlSJ8LfyuBFBtV2A2UU0 ET+aRDK039RaxOdMTc/VTVjRh+8XF9gotd7w7b25mE8jylLuCuGhHcaAF8mmKwYuAdns GPp4mSa7l7KIfXMtoUG6gGLhuI2+gll2A3hdo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Yo6p8LerTDFS4QaHvvGe1QmYi6stHjjrLqWdanOVj3Rq7QXKvRETw2Y4ll0vcVcFCW Fl/fM2EKMc5QkPtYY22pHU1omLX7bC24oWr+/ZpnTaBLgge4duWkethP5maVuhOwHN9k kxtcI7VyQj75Ey22rhWMg0x/EH7hgprcFqyLM= Received: by 10.220.107.202 with SMTP id c10mr207324vcp.53.1272237220889; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 16:13:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.70.17 with SMTP id b17ls36498010vcj.2.p; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 16:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.74.69 with SMTP id t5mr685706vcj.14.1272237219174; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 16:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.74.69 with SMTP id t5mr685703vcj.14.1272237218900; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 16:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com (mail-qy0-f189.google.com [209.85.221.189]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z9si2539365vch.7.2010.04.25.16.13.37; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 16:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.189 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.189; Received: by mail-qy0-f189.google.com with SMTP id 27so8559048qyk.23 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 16:13:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.190.21 with SMTP id dg21mr3824133qcb.69.1272237217373; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 16:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.79.75 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 16:13:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <497776.6427.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <910640.40103.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <971944.73808.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <983500.94659.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <770120.37196.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <733078.90670.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <497776.6427.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 20:13:37 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] What gets into 'lo broda' From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.189 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 7:46 PM, John E Clifford wro= te: > OK, so I am not getting it. =A0'lo cimei be lo broda' is not some trios o= ut of lo broda but just a trio out of lo broda, not in any sense different = from (what used to be written as) 'ci lo broda'. "ci lo broda" is an incomplete expression. It is an operator lacking its operand. It means "three and only three of the referents of 'lo broda' are such that: ..." "lo cimei be lo broda", on the other hand, is a referring expression. Its referents, whatever they are, are three of the referents of "lo broda". It is equivalent to "lo ci lo broda". The distinction between an operator with scope over a bridi, and a simple referring expression is important. >=A0So how do we get references to cases of several selection, each of them= a trio, say? By quantifying over gunma/girzu/bende etc instead of over brodas. "re gunma be ci lo broda" is "two groups of three of the brodas are such that: ...". (If you like using "loi" or "lu'o" as shorthand for "lo gunma be", I don't mind, but I prefer to spell it out.) mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.