From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRD63NfeBBoE3D1svQ@googlegroups.com Mon Apr 26 12:50:46 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O6UKH-0000ec-7B; Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:50:46 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf11831556gyd.16 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:50:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=PnfFRYk128GjYD4h7C63u3ZKEfDHiC5sBveqOuUJlrw=; b=wFX3Ivw8jAkq9JTeyhoKHuI2rHLK+CENbkDyFeNY5UUfEB150PTeFUGOtt1YR13jzx STl5aNdKpkI7vsl59NfarSIIt8LuP/DA2jj37qRiERMtoJXgK5EuDeMeOmkFhrrTVind 18ye7VV+Twgg3Qpq5zuPU8geyluDDNrS1RHlA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=P28CtqDpid6488VIw98L+P3tzW07VGCbSxThiwwlxpFYufmMngnZnm31LSydXxu5Wc b2GU8gfexaTuhgucr7U+kOztkCxa5RTJWmfBq7H3gM2ZiRX4SKQ0kTauZ92l77VLhid4 uLzngFVoA2ZZGEKmIeKEaif2eNaBJYFWBLB0c= Received: by 10.150.242.3 with SMTP id p3mr864501ybh.52.1272311418625; Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:50:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.24.10 with SMTP id 10ls10234768anx.7.p; Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.137.8 with SMTP id p8mr3300276ann.5.1272311417715; Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.137.8 with SMTP id p8mr3300274ann.5.1272311417681; Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.118]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id b4si50860anl.4.2010.04.26.12.50.16; Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.118; Received: (qmail 78421 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2010 19:50:16 -0000 Message-ID: <238986.75942.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: r3Lqm10VM1lLl1Ft2iTYVNouPLLc4NqsUPmcJ4FVGwPgOk8 iUsi6cuJJcJ33G6hBO7ziZ_47v0qQII_ImH6yukXe5LEP8xm3iS6vB.WPTU5 awsvcRUGZDeYkom8qzy7bLfvWUSmwK9_d2oi9GMK9GggUTOMdeuz9aJPDE1P hxZqkp0xbxZThcuOQaem5WxBZXTF7lXR1kDnR4SuzZXc1Z8Zvd61seaVgjgv 1wAf12DCkwqXxH1d3SUAWmGtrFrfG_KJx4x41NVidHWoZ0LRtMbHRnr.BJ1u a79rvd5i.C3OrQ1PnH9uyPVCHsElMv4JYD4gHEyJyVEO9gZUTKLFDxXLGwxQ abza5wrekfWCNUIO7ZgjQYI4Kx.xOboUXlmdI Received: from [71.14.73.129] by web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:50:16 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/348.5 YahooMailWebService/0.8.102.267879 References: <543671.39631.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:50:16 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] What gets into 'lo broda' To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm afraid the logic chopping is getting a little too thick for me here. ----- Original Message ---- From: Jorge Llamb=EDas To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, April 26, 2010 12:33:39 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] What gets into 'lo broda' On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 1:44 PM, John E. Clifford wr= ote: > Oops! I forgot that the exactitude of 'ci' would come into play. So, if = we want two trios, what do we do? 'lo re cimei'? lo re ci mei are actually 23. "lo reboi cimei" are both two and three: they are three because they satisfy "zo'e cimei" and they are two because that's what the inner "re" says, so they also satisfy "zo'e remei". My guess is that in this particular case the "inner quantifier" forces the reification of the three into one, because otherwise it is redundant to count again what is already counted by its very definition. But if three can only be three, then "lo reboi cimei" is just like the square circle. When more clarity is desirable, then "lo re gunma be lo cimei": "the two groups of three" is better, as now it is clear that it's the groups that are two, not the things that are three. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.