Received: from mail-oi0-f60.google.com ([209.85.218.60]:33575) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWaNM-0006P9-N0 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:28:52 -0700 Received: by oigm66 with SMTP id m66sf33810288oig.0 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:28:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x_cmae_category:from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=jQaAqFld18u5ZdveryW7pr1TYjyzYmwl0pBC1//Eeiw=; b=GO0Z97oaUemnw1a0v/OXW+rCbWx1Tf9HwYjWMOUWROOYaFc9CcG6/RjRgMZfe9ZZql FSNuO0hUpucXlVINFcEP0fnj1xBCBnIPx4oLHwgdKlewHOPtuCsTtOMdFQpb2P6/SrLp tp6bWHv7V5yfhz6MFEusSwhI773ubJmt+127VTqADXERtdf+X7UpmUdHPsCE9szCt/W/ M+dLYGvmCMkOJn70TD9ZAFreZLtfYVMN6X8ZB0zTfIQoKnmsgMAOvD2tLV0dJGLKrYgx +NpK897LlAD3tvErsk4VdOD5QkKwFcCifuE0rWZ8A0o+jufm2e6fNgzhMJ6mw+Ntwms0 Q6mQ== X-Received: by 10.182.129.200 with SMTP id ny8mr412469obb.12.1441070914561; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:28:34 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.240.198 with SMTP id wc6ls4064135obc.24.gmail; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:28:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.165.170 with SMTP id yz10mr29249763vdb.2.1441070914194; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:28:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.hughes.net (smtp.hughes.net. [69.168.97.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u4si31082igb.0.2015.08.31.18.28.33 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:28:33 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.168.97.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@bezitopo.org) client-ip=69.168.97.48; X-Authed-Username: cGhtYUBodWdoZXMubmV0 X_CMAE_Category: 0,0 Undefined,Undefined X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=L+4kHYj8 c=1 sm=0 tr=0 a=tu8v4/BYpNWK47pT606GYA==:117 a=tu8v4/BYpNWK47pT606GYA==:17 a=K-v-2zaBAAAA:8 a=JNFw9bs7AAAA:8 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=uRRa74qj2VoA:10 a=-s9dq_XMUm5e9Ct6GhsA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Received-SPF: neutral (smtp01.hughes.cmh.synacor.com: 173.95.140.180 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of bezitopo.org) Received: from [173.95.140.180] ([173.95.140.180:34895] helo=bezitopo.org) by smtp.hughes.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.49 r(42060/42061)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-SHA) id F9/04-26404-14FF4E55; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 21:28:33 -0400 Received: from caracal.localnet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bezitopo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01DA66478 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 21:28:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] seca'o Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 21:28:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1772520.0r4z4guCtK@caracal> User-Agent: KMail/4.13.3 (Linux/3.13.0-62-generic; KDE/4.13.3; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: <16379753.h0Xzzxiggv@caracal> <1618046.L1WxyscUVr@caracal> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Original-Sender: phma@bezitopo.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.168.97.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@bezitopo.org) smtp.mailfrom=phma@bezitopo.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - On Monday, August 31, 2015 21:39:23 Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > Neither {fi'o ... fe'u} constructs. Why can't they be tenses? They are an open class equivalent to BAI. The selbri inside can be converted with SE. > That would by semantics include {ka'a}, won't it? or you want to allow > spatial markers but make a syntactic exclusion for Lojban? {ka'a} is grammatically not a tense marker, but a member of BAI. Sometimes tense is conflated with aspect and mood, the whole thing being called tense; sometimes they are separated. We should probably have words for both. In Lojban, aspects and tenses are expressed in the same way, but with different selma'o; mood, however, is expressed differently. The modals (CAhA) are part of the tense-aspect system, but subjunctive and irrealis are expressed with some members of UI, and the imperative is expressed with a pronoun. Pierre -- Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. 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