From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDR5JzfBBoEq9xhJA@googlegroups.com Sun May 09 15:08:40 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OBEfo-0003zj-9C; Sun, 09 May 2010 15:08:39 -0700 Received: by vws12 with SMTP id 12sf718666vws.16 for ; Sun, 09 May 2010 15:08:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=zF7Soll9V3h6F0jJ7LFK50Q9mRCgXIYyVlzQ/5h3Xvk=; b=JQ7z4/92AChez8dJXeC/yrRPopuIMymHxyMNxaGr/hK1mrLFr1csgOSG8W/iyinIzr CjQmnmou9YyQi7QnC1WuAn9V/uwBajY/rQGz7/L1+9x+iY9J9FX0dZ+PiQ1+ZLUvfq6Q oDv8dvkEPzDU7ry9KyJKpckccwi0PEVhlcXqM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jsZ/e2HCn5l43vGMI78lCfCX90ZzcWYq+tQ4T1f0HzDx2y+zpHvqNf77XGpBIGRafw dPHVuz2MdhTSQS19qjnZe1QNmszwgtTL9bcaFKAl7iAE4b1dJi/oEMOnhHzo6uHH5unA GRlzAxELXYTR8s9yzT2qaqPocUO0aqwRJlmQo= Received: by 10.220.108.223 with SMTP id g31mr326751vcp.35.1273442897571; Sun, 09 May 2010 15:08:17 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.66.74 with SMTP id m10ls13678642vci.4.p; Sun, 09 May 2010 15:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.168.213 with SMTP id v21mr633547vcy.6.1273442896554; Sun, 09 May 2010 15:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.168.213 with SMTP id v21mr633546vcy.6.1273442896526; Sun, 09 May 2010 15:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f171.google.com (mail-qy0-f171.google.com [209.85.221.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l27si6326762vcr.6.2010.05.09.15.08.15; Sun, 09 May 2010 15:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.171; Received: by qyk1 with SMTP id 1so5020523qyk.5 for ; Sun, 09 May 2010 15:08:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.182.20 with SMTP id ca20mr2457752qcb.58.1273442895208; Sun, 09 May 2010 15:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.82.11 with HTTP; Sun, 9 May 2010 15:08:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201005062238.58059.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 19:08:15 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] The North Wind and the Sun From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 6:19 PM, tijlan wrote: > > "future-oriented + intentional" leads me to "bavgau" or "bavzu'e". There's some connection between intention and the future, we only need to look at what happened to the English word "will". But intending is something that happens in the present and may never be realized. "bavgau" says nothing about intentions: "x1 makes x2 happen after x3", and "bavzu'e" is maybe something like "x1 acts after x2 in order to x3". x3 is the intention, but zukte is still focusing on actions, not intentions. > This makes me wonder how "intends to do" differ from "wants to do". Perha= ps > simply: > > =A0mi djica lo nu [ce'u?] jungau > =A0I intend to tell > > =A0mi toldji lo nu [ce'u?] jungau > =A0I refuse to tell > > Although UI does differentiate "ai/ainai" from "au/aunai". There are some commonalities, but wish/desire/want applies to things over which one has no control. I can wish that it doesn't rain tomorrow, but I can't intend for that to happen (unless I have some mysterious powers that I'm not telling you about), and "I want to go" is not the same as "I intend to go". If I can't go, I can still want to, but I can't intend to. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.