From lojban+bncCMvjp-TQBRCLmZ3fBBoE04k8ow@googlegroups.com Sun May 09 17:00:37 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OBGQB-0001LS-GN; Sun, 09 May 2010 17:00:36 -0700 Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26sf351684wwf.16 for ; Sun, 09 May 2010 17:00:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:sender :received:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=GGi1ESOtYSmFX1Zui2af2GbOPVBSRatc/mzYc2rdwDg=; b=AEg33vL7pgPJNecKVa6VGNLA1aNeq4yrPF/ja91luvSCcIyyUWkXQcVDVA0t5QyH+D Dm2t59Le5edKlsq3+qb7tC8AMXocEfv3ZqHQ16+9h+KO919C61G9l8IPdXw4DTiwQOhr hOfe81VY8BTFcOaB+41VwqxwBPb5KEfw2Mqkk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=azpv+KKR7TQYWcNPJnqcgdnR1CJlR1BCWmA8x64J0FLmR8mj4WdpaJqnOwEd8ZY/Qa mK7vCtTuxqipL02FgpRACZLCv7x9bacLSD9SFfmYITrxS8jn2Zd7sNIuhc9q8lSukY8D LMxSOzG2voFcdlmbyIQsMraBUKV1Kb92WAhfc= Received: by 10.223.81.194 with SMTP id y2mr324407fak.4.1273449611449; Sun, 09 May 2010 17:00:11 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.6.77 with SMTP id 13ls4676178bky.3.p; Sun, 09 May 2010 17:00:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.148.65 with SMTP id o1mr114448bkv.5.1273449609259; Sun, 09 May 2010 17:00:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.148.65 with SMTP id o1mr114447bkv.5.1273449609222; Sun, 09 May 2010 17:00:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f221.google.com (mail-bw0-f221.google.com [209.85.218.221]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 17si480191bwz.7.2010.05.09.17.00.08; Sun, 09 May 2010 17:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.218.221 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.218.221; Received: by mail-bw0-f221.google.com with SMTP id 21so1493606bwz.35 for ; Sun, 09 May 2010 17:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.47.153 with SMTP id n25mr1943378bkf.199.1273449608078; Sun, 09 May 2010 17:00:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.26.216 with HTTP; Sun, 9 May 2010 16:59:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Daniel Brockman Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 01:59:48 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Attitudinal scales and the meaning of {cu'i} To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dbrockman@gmail.com designates 209.85.218.221 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dbrockman@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: dbrockman@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I forgot to reply to this. 2010/4/25 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Daniel Brockman wr= ote: >> >> So, my proposal: >> >> =A0* {UI} and {UI nai} are dictionary-defined. >> =A0* {UI sai}, {UI ru'e} and {UI cu'i} are fully compositional. > > It sounds reasonable, but consider for example: > > .o'a (UI1) > Attitudinal. Used to express pride / dignity / self-confidence / > smugness / bravado / grandiloquence / pomposity / cockiness / conceit > / arrogance. (cf. jgira) > > .o'a cu'i (UI*1) > Attitudinal. Used to express modesty / humility / humbleness / > discreetness / meekness / unpretentiousness / reserve. (cf. cumla) > > .o'a nai (UI*1) > Attitudinal. Used to express shame / abashment / embarrassment / > humiliation / mortification. (cf. ckeji) > > Isn't it useful to have the words modesty / humility / humbleness / > discreetness / meekness / unpretentiousness / reserve associated in > some way with "o'a cu'i"? And also the lojban word "cumla"? At least > the entry for "cumla" should probably make some reference to "o'a > cu'i", and in an English-Lojban dictionary the entries for modesty, > humility, etc should mention "o'a cu'i", whether the dictionary has an > entry for ".o'a cu'i" or not. Agreed. In general, I don't object to listing a compositional phrase in the dictionary as the Lojban translation of an English word. We can list {re roi} as the translation of "twice", too, but that doesn't mean we should think of {re roi} as having a definition of its own. Instead, the meaning of {re roi} follows directly from the meaning of its components, and I think the same should hold for {.o'a cu'i}. Besides, why'd you leave out {.o'a nai cu'i}? --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.