From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCGj6zfBBoE8cf1Lg@googlegroups.com Wed May 12 12:55:05 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OCI1E-00064p-3l; Wed, 12 May 2010 12:55:05 -0700 Received: by gwj18 with SMTP id 18sf376864gwj.16 for ; Wed, 12 May 2010 12:54:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=iMIYzAIjMhvIbR2dhHYIoJ85KGk51/7DpW6vrduEqRk=; b=TM2VAEtEvxc/WKrieUTYnkqQfB60YfWKQs16HuOEizrE4NQYyErSc+6qlB8L3WLF6c WLYel+CA3h7Dcm/v9iW4r2qdIlRVPgNb3o6TsxpnGea9uRfykPc0yxOC5EInrFJ6R/Gy Jv0ZBvfQT97bwnMu/CAIDFrAL7zlxVmnuMKDk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=mPPLn4VaFZ40MuR34RJo3tqLr8Mi+gpE/EM2rcXz7iPD04X3wH/1XvS0F8koBNLIzd UYyznTcBCIIShyHy2hg8TN2jLbU4f612OqOlVg1ro3smQ6H7lPbyESPbrf+N8h5QIHeV O9g+L5rEqIEskY1b33ci+nzZBg9a3yX/1FjzA= Received: by 10.150.242.2 with SMTP id p2mr969518ybh.42.1273694086326; Wed, 12 May 2010 12:54:46 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.248.9 with SMTP id v9ls18124256ybh.5.p; Wed, 12 May 2010 12:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.255.41 with SMTP id c41mr7683381ybi.18.1273694084192; Wed, 12 May 2010 12:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.255.41 with SMTP id c41mr7683380ybi.18.1273694084135; Wed, 12 May 2010 12:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f44.google.com (mail-gw0-f44.google.com [74.125.83.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a39si515687ybd.3.2010.05.12.12.54.43; Wed, 12 May 2010 12:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.44; Received: by mail-gw0-f44.google.com with SMTP id 19so214789gwb.3 for ; Wed, 12 May 2010 12:54:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.217.146 with SMTP id hm18mr770345qcb.24.1273694082891; Wed, 12 May 2010 12:54:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.82.11 with HTTP; Wed, 12 May 2010 12:54:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:54:42 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-7?B?UmU6IFtsb2piYW5dIOgtcm9sZQ==?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/5/12 tijlan : > What could be the thematic relation > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thematic_relation) in "purci"? > > =A0x1 is in the past of/earlier than/before x2 in time sequence > > My first impression was that both x1 and x2 were themes. I would say in that scheme x1 is the theme and x2 is the "reference point" (not listed among the "major thematic relations" in that page, but fairly common in Lojban). Such classifications depend a lot on your choice of semantic theory. One scheme I like a lot is Rick Morneau's (see the "Verbs" section): http://www.eskimo.com/~ram/lexical_semantics.html In that scheme, "purci" would be P/F-s, which means a static relation with x1 as the patient and x2 as the focus. > (Is that > semantically possible?) Then I thought x1 could be the source/origin and = x2 > the goal/direction. But such directivity may scientifically be false, wit= h > respect to this: > > =A0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-symmetry > > And perhaps even culturally biased: > > =A0http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/06/060613185239.htm > > What do you think? I would say the x2 of "purci" has the same thematic role as the x2 of "zunle", or the x2 of "cnita". I don't think whether we think of the past as being in front of us or behind us (or to the right or left or up or ...) is all that relevant for the thematic roles question. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.