From lojban+bncCOzcnrWBFBDNja3fBBoEfRUMxg@googlegroups.com Wed May 12 17:25:06 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f141.google.com ([209.85.211.141]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OCMEW-0008Ns-HB; Wed, 12 May 2010 17:25:06 -0700 Received: by ywh5 with SMTP id 5sf473799ywh.25 for ; Wed, 12 May 2010 17:24:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:sender :received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=QhQ3cRp7S/bqowi+icDSElXCbuaSDG1iZK9x71QfQhQ=; b=eCW+5Nfsrp5Cefq4byoGV36eiMWrLk5H5V7SBiJpSKHu0satwHq/5NRoLysoXkeW+I CUNR2qAZ9Dl84KirWp7xs7CYd5is6YVmXsVVfe6X3LibEcTfvqXxb5+JAtCIuwJtIZd4 2AP1cExkSAT4WVp7Chgy8viHda2OHGrOHIEbM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=D72Y0Rfk8PNRnAM3eY8uPqILylNE3Z3JWN77sTi4Yd778RtXQ/vEaQ3wjtvs3IWK/k 28MiEpsVnNQyGBimeq8ERQwjeSRMHEcjAW4vVQXszn9+SnOmAJRb/MtdbDvDvFfKTN1R pOHPF/FXsq6OsNtR4CabxvqTKwYtyImCWNs1c= Received: by 10.91.160.33 with SMTP id m33mr753ago.15.1273710285615; Wed, 12 May 2010 17:24:45 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.93.10 with SMTP id v10ls11895613agl.3.p; Wed, 12 May 2010 17:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.9.19 with SMTP id 19mr26239agi.4.1273710284718; Wed, 12 May 2010 17:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.9.19 with SMTP id 19mr26237agi.4.1273710284676; Wed, 12 May 2010 17:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f199.google.com (mail-qy0-f199.google.com [209.85.221.199]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 11si63691gxk.9.2010.05.12.17.24.43; Wed, 12 May 2010 17:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.199 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.199; Received: by mail-qy0-f199.google.com with SMTP id 37so729212qyk.22 for ; Wed, 12 May 2010 17:24:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.65.208 with SMTP id k16mr5683221qai.137.1273710283429; Wed, 12 May 2010 17:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.42.202 with HTTP; Wed, 12 May 2010 17:24:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 01:24:43 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: =?ISO-8859-7?B?UmU6IFtsb2piYW5dIOgtcm9sZQ==?= From: tijlan To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.199 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=pascal.akihiko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: pascal.akihiko@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09ffb4bc0fd998d04866ec88a --00c09ffb4bc0fd998d04866ec88a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/5/12 Jorge Llamb=EDas > 2010/5/12 tijlan : > > What could be the thematic relation > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thematic_relation) in "purci"? > > > > x1 is in the past of/earlier than/before x2 in time sequence > > > > My first impression was that both x1 and x2 were themes. > > I would say in that scheme x1 is the theme and x2 is the "reference > point" (not listed among the "major thematic relations" in that page, > but fairly common in Lojban). > > Such classifications depend a lot on your choice of semantic theory. > One scheme I like a lot is Rick Morneau's (see the "Verbs" section): > http://www.eskimo.com/~ram/lexical_semantics.html > > In that scheme, "purci" would be P/F-s, which means a static relation > with x1 as the patient and x2 as the focus. > > > (Is that > > semantically possible?) Then I thought x1 could be the source/origin an= d > x2 > > the goal/direction. But such directivity may scientifically be false, > with > > respect to this: > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-symmetry > > > > And perhaps even culturally biased: > > > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/06/060613185239.htm > > > > What do you think? > > I would say the x2 of "purci" has the same thematic role as the x2 of > "zunle", or the x2 of "cnita". I don't think whether we think of the > past as being in front of us or behind us (or to the right or left or > up or ...) is all that relevant for the thematic roles question. > ki'e ro'e And what a fascinating monograph that you linked there is! --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --00c09ffb4bc0fd998d04866ec88a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2010/5/12 Jorge Llamb=EDas <= ;jjllambias@gmail.com>
2010/5/12 tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail= .com>:
> What could be the thematic relation
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thematic_relation) in "purci&= quot;?
>
> =A0x1 is in the past of/earlier than/before x2 in time sequence
>
> My first impression was that both x1 and x2 were themes.

I would say in that scheme x1 is the theme and x2 is the "refere= nce
point" (not listed among the "major thematic relations" in t= hat page,
but fairly common in Lojban).

Such classifications depend a lot on your choice of semantic theory.
One scheme I like a lot is Rick Morneau's (see the "Verbs" se= ction):
http://www.eskimo.com/~ram/lexical_semantics.html

In that scheme, "purci" would be P/F-s, which means a static rela= tion
with x1 as the patient and x2 as the focus.

> (Is that
> semantically possible?) Then I thought x1 could be the source/origin a= nd x2
> the goal/direction. But such directivity may scientifically be false, = with
> respect to this:
>
> =A0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-symmetry
>
> And perhaps even culturally biased:
>
> =A0http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/06/06061= 3185239.htm
>
> What do you think?

I would say the x2 of "purci" has the same thematic role as= the x2 of
"zunle", or the x2 of "cnita". I don't think whethe= r we think of the
past as being in front of us or behind us (or to the right or left or
up or ...) is all that relevant for the thematic roles question.

ki'e ro'e

And = what a fascinating monograph that you linked there is!

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