From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxCk67LfBBoEOKT6Yw@googlegroups.com Thu May 13 19:30:18 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f149.google.com ([209.85.221.149]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OCkfD-0006Uh-Kz; Thu, 13 May 2010 19:30:18 -0700 Received: by qyk13 with SMTP id 13sf779618qyk.1 for ; Thu, 13 May 2010 19:30:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; bh=iL9XwE8OCD/ctGk/V4Lg+z0rrVtZPqkO44mPiducgRg=; b=DY9ir42ZW70oiUMhshb1SPA1FumncbhDQvZsut1fyLq2EEQKCDlpQYb6a98eqQUsN4 5QmI1it3Q1hicm2yl+mNll/zPYCwMI7soWkTNDPv89fQ+OLCGnyXJ+S5VevQcFnKGola KVjqX73cZs6AcneuRCvTbI53nhraFuVOL6eLU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; b=D1dAcmv2xsTIPekZyBqBgsVuSV3Bt3l3zEy87P6sdpmJG44TEFFo9nxKXEm6ZzMbQF DyIFHRdbxvkmGOFCti5Rx26s3XhchJVomM5AvljVOqfYTUshQ/y6rSA4oB3q19NRzAjA 8TAKDs+k337KSXOTjBRIPXUbiEnbZbhOowlAA= Received: by 10.229.127.101 with SMTP id f37mr47394qcs.36.1273804196910; Thu, 13 May 2010 19:29:56 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.179.165 with SMTP id bq37ls653383qcb.3.p; Thu, 13 May 2010 19:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.186.201 with SMTP id ct9mr71856qcb.17.1273804195770; Thu, 13 May 2010 19:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.186.201 with SMTP id ct9mr71855qcb.17.1273804195740; Thu, 13 May 2010 19:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.122]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si257798qyk.15.2010.05.13.19.29.55; Thu, 13 May 2010 19:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.122; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=bnjYn4dfhd9CziTiLFVnZ2V/f+sCNzVSrcT5VUK9o8U= c=1 sm=0 a=CduTy8nATXAA:10 a=ood2b7iyd8MA:10 a=ORa4HqFjfvEA:10 a=Q9fys5e9bTEA:10 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:17 a=mX_E6xJBJ0TI95ZA4bYA:9 a=eS8SIJw_82HeK7Tp1oZlV7f4GfcA:4 a=PUjeQqilurYA:10 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 71.71.198.100 Received: from [71.71.198.100] ([71.71.198.100:53546] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 3D/C9-29689-2A5BCEB4; Fri, 14 May 2010 02:29:55 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEE824237 for ; Thu, 13 May 2010 22:29:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] JAI/BO was: Attitudinal scales Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 22:29:50 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201005132229.51889.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday 13 May 2010 21:11:30 Michael Turniansky wrote: > I don't know, it always seems to me like JAI BAI and JAI SELBRI don't > really function in quite the same way, meaningwise. (And what exactly does > JAI PU do? Does anyone use it? Examples?) I think "jai selbri" is equivalent to "jai do'e selbri". As to "jai ", consider "jai ru'u": mi jai ru'u vofli fai loi cmasfani (I am surrounded by flying gnats / I am flown around by gnats) = ru'u mi cu vofli fa loi cmasfani (Around me fly gnats) "jai pu" does make sense if the subject is an event or time: lo nu kunzba cu jai pu rokcedra (This is hard to translate. It's like an antipassive, except it isn't.) "Smelting was *past-ed by the Stone Age"? "Smelting was *Stone-Aged before it happened"? The un-jai-ed version, "pu lo nu kunzba cu rokcedra", is much easier: "Before smelting was the Stone Age". The difficulty of translating JAI PU, at least into accusative languages and probably into ergative languages as well, probably explains why it isn't used much. Pierre -- .i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do .ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga .icu'u la ma'atman. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.