From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhDuv7TfBBoEXKrKmQ@googlegroups.com Fri May 14 03:03:48 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f198.google.com ([209.85.217.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OCrk4-0003Qk-RQ; Fri, 14 May 2010 03:03:47 -0700 Received: by gxk22 with SMTP id 22sf1878804gxk.4 for ; Fri, 14 May 2010 03:03:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=WEOjua9l5NKZywl3qOPtMRr737myK7fPPPj4lCbDgZc=; b=5qOEw2gtI6TTJUEfrPbwa7hm0OSrfOjIapSQj9oenfw+i3l+E5IKsD/+8l/765YkEc 4iO7CxMsWWD7UGn867SGDuJ9MXc+eOEdW0+qs9wVq4CfQEbtv0IV2t9g/Xd3Rl1OvLS7 bcASL/RF5XNWyQRlk4gpWCogIF2FPpVulTJQg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=jGZ1lHjJ3dcPFWE7bXwqHGo96DoWeLF8XcnHuSmmv6nYHTA93LFBNoHqQ8GmRDMLRx epi2/3A549cmVz/mzD/ddlf9DxRdPb+4Yx3oEiypxPfVikujC7+IYkNxgvXGMwyJ79lJ 7j6NvM2k223KBwJPV3a3YW3zwcyFnEnepbT6o= Received: by 10.150.171.15 with SMTP id t15mr138174ybe.41.1273831406032; Fri, 14 May 2010 03:03:26 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.17.15 with SMTP id u15ls1237168ybi.0.p; Fri, 14 May 2010 03:03:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.252.14 with SMTP id z14mr559583ybh.1.1273831403572; Fri, 14 May 2010 03:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.252.14 with SMTP id z14mr559581ybh.1.1273831403507; Fri, 14 May 2010 03:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f178.google.com (mail-qy0-f178.google.com [209.85.221.178]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a39si2613007ybd.7.2010.05.14.03.03.22; Fri, 14 May 2010 03:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.178; Received: by mail-qy0-f178.google.com with SMTP id 8so3062740qyk.4 for ; Fri, 14 May 2010 03:03:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.181.142 with SMTP id by14mr309847qcb.18.1273831402366; Fri, 14 May 2010 03:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.225.66 with HTTP; Fri, 14 May 2010 03:03:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201005132229.51889.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <201005132229.51889.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 06:03:22 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] JAI/BO was: Attitudinal scales From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364d2edb3de7b304868afcf0 --0016364d2edb3de7b304868afcf0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Thursday 13 May 2010 21:11:30 Michael Turniansky wrote: > > I don't know, it always seems to me like JAI BAI and JAI SELBRI don't > > really function in quite the same way, meaningwise. (And what exactly > does > > JAI PU do? Does anyone use it? Examples?) > > [snip] > lo nu kunzba cu jai pu rokcedra > (This is hard to translate. It's like an antipassive, except it isn't.) > "Smelting was *past-ed by the Stone Age"? > "Smelting was *Stone-Aged before it happened"? > The un-jai-ed version, "pu lo nu kunzba cu rokcedra", is much easier: > "Before > smelting was the Stone Age". The difficulty of translating JAI PU, at least > into accusative languages and probably into ergative languages as well, > probably explains why it isn't used much. > > > Okay, that's what I thought, but then I thought maybe I was thinking about it wrong. ki'e --gejyspa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016364d2edb3de7b304868afcf0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Pierre= Abbat <phma@phm= a.optus.nu> wrote:
On Thursday 13 May 2010 21:11:30 Michael Turniansky wrote:
> I don't know, it always seems to me like JAI BAI and JAI SELBRI do= n't
> really function in quite the same way, meaningwise. =A0(And what exact= ly does
> JAI PU do? =A0Does anyone use it? =A0Examples?)

[snip]=A0
lo nu kunzba cu jai pu rokcedra
(This is hard to translate. It's like an antipassive, except it isn'= ;t.)
"Smelting was *past-ed by the Stone Age"?
"Smelting was *Stone-Aged before it happened"?
The un-jai-ed version, "pu lo nu kunzba cu rokcedra", is much eas= ier: "Before
smelting was the Stone Age". The difficulty of translating JAI PU, at = least
into accusative languages and probably into ergative languages as well,
probably explains why it isn't used much.



=A0 Okay, that's what I thought, but then I t= hought maybe I was thinking about it wrong. =A0 ki'e
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= --gejyspa
=A0

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--0016364d2edb3de7b304868afcf0--