From lojban+bncCLi-v_X3FRDzxcvfBBoEA_t1Vw@googlegroups.com Tue May 18 12:02:08 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OES3C-0004dt-Ie; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:02:07 -0700 Received: by vws8 with SMTP id 8sf3227769vws.16 for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:01:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version :in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=b49EEQMw6oR4uCaYyiYP1+D4ZKUz5YR0zuYDmSfEdv8=; b=n39Y1AiC90IbuWVoY2tx6bymJgZ8Mm1/xxCmneaEhIT0Fu/y7TMyKsxCXOT6VjIh0h JW4RX9wfGLWHheSgRjvbyJ5QRa7rBDKyM5/HevGdo969/3ISwznBTmx7chqTSeQv3bPj 4B9KBaS7O0JqwISZ0DnqsAHAZR59d2QJOrWKo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition; b=wavfRLbrqjUoes4bOwiQFbZJVfu+LQAuoVG2bhV/fgbhcU9D6SCynis8DGWNOvA1Tc rm0wi4/osB6Dj/taiRiRs5btLTnjYJundJeTr2s7zzMbl+cEdfeso13jSFtGZZV9teDS txExPDMesWUSEXCREHW2oc+Q4drAFOm6zIBnw= Received: by 10.224.39.14 with SMTP id d14mr1063721qae.35.1274209011731; Tue, 18 May 2010 11:56:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.41.66 with SMTP id n2ls35704qae.3.p; Tue, 18 May 2010 11:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.69.220 with SMTP id a28mr542228qaj.8.1274209008368; Tue, 18 May 2010 11:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.45.5 with SMTP id s5mr2964242was.41.1274198838828; Tue, 18 May 2010 09:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.45.5 with SMTP id s5mr2964241was.41.1274198838779; Tue, 18 May 2010 09:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sdf.lonestar.org (mx.freeshell.org [192.94.73.19]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id u10si10382350wak.2.2010.05.18.09.07.18; Tue, 18 May 2010 09:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 192.94.73.19 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of jwodder@sdf.lonestar.org) client-ip=192.94.73.19; Received: from sdf.lonestar.org (IDENT:jwodder@sverige.freeshell.org [192.94.73.4]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4IG7Ioi003777 for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 16:07:18 GMT Received: (from jwodder@localhost) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.4/8.12.8/Submit) id o4IG7IXN006837 for lojban@googlegroups.com; Tue, 18 May 2010 16:07:18 GMT Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 16:07:18 +0000 From: Minimiscience To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Named multiples Message-ID: <20100518160715.GA6617@sdf.lonestar.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 192.94.73.19 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of jwodder@sdf.lonestar.org) smtp.mail=jwodder@sdf.lonestar.org X-Original-Sender: minimiscience@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline de'i li 18 pi'e 05 pi'e 2010 la'o fy. Luke Bergen .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra. > >> I noticed something on that page that I didn't understand. Why get rid > of > >> sa? What could be more clear than "take next word and erase all previous > >> words back to the last occurrence of the following word"? > > > > (It's about selma'o, not about specific words.) > > Wait, the proposal then is to get rid of all of SA, not just sa itself? I > don't think I want to live in a world without {si}. .skamyxatra Firstly, that's not what he meant. "{sa}" is currently defined to erase everything back through the last occurrence of a word of the same {selma'o} as what follows, not the last occurrence of the same exact word. Secondly, "{sa}" is the only {cmavo} of {selma'o} SA; each of the three erasure {cmavo} belongs to its own {selma'o}, which it shares with no other. The fact that they each have completely different effects on the grammar should have been a tip-off to you. > ta'onai. So, I haven't been able to completely follow the conversation > fully. Would the proposed merging cause cmevla to become valid selbri > words? e.g. something like {mi spagetis. citka}? Yes, that is the proposal. > What would be the ramifications of this? Increased ease of converting foreign words to Lojban {selbri} without having to deal with {fu'ivla} morphology or "{me la}." However, prior texts which did not separate {cmevla} from following {selbri} (e.g., "{la .ktulxus. senva denpa}") would either take on a completely different meaning or become invalid. > What would be the proposed default meaning of something like {ko'a cu djan > ko'e ko'i}? From earlier in the thread: > "x1 is named '...'" would probably be the default meaning for cmevla. But > other cmevla, like "spagetis" or "opel" would carry more meaning than just > "x1 is named '...'". mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun. -- vo selska cu banzu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. 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