From lojban+bncCKv97aq_GRDDsNDfBBoEpqonkQ@googlegroups.com Wed May 19 09:56:54 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OEmZd-0000bO-UJ; Wed, 19 May 2010 09:56:54 -0700 Received: by wye20 with SMTP id 20sf2212398wye.16 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 09:56:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Bjnd/EpJRD3oI1EICesaZI8qFAuhJrrKtD3A5+29L5o=; b=zziK+piz3LFIRX+R3jJQ7AGiyOs0wRbQ9KZF6MZdpV9MWtM6xXLLxyXVtNZ4hvzxuH zG0QZzwbN62vLXcmBZt6HyoNnPaagXkLW3I8G8slI75PZmnUxawWro5v/W4L30xwG+Jy nM1FXKiZ4fkwGaYSCAKfN/iISBfSrItHQ3rGY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=RFLYwHBXSNwCVnXy2JN0h2IF5S6C1YNYYRaLfTlvGTVk1PoNhGRq/L1eMSGmqRp4Ur KcYLb+kNFtmmn2dSuh482g3lI2xcOqSutGkYg5lvXvAsVdCp3A3eOikmiGD59ncSgd98 z2Pr+VvD8OubERDfZeNVkjX0691gX6dk6r3FY= Received: by 10.223.5.152 with SMTP id 24mr1201554fav.9.1274288195115; Wed, 19 May 2010 09:56:35 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.223.32.71 with SMTP id b7ls6747693fad.0.p; Wed, 19 May 2010 09:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.56.26 with SMTP id w26mr788126fag.23.1274288192917; Wed, 19 May 2010 09:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.56.26 with SMTP id w26mr788125fag.23.1274288192859; Wed, 19 May 2010 09:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.155]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 8si6157998fav.5.2010.05.19.09.56.31; Wed, 19 May 2010 09:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lamelnyk@gmail.com designates 72.14.220.155 as permitted sender) client-ip=72.14.220.155; Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so108777fga.7 for ; Wed, 19 May 2010 09:56:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.102.17.29 with SMTP id 29mr176824muq.45.1274288191678; Wed, 19 May 2010 09:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.117.15 with HTTP; Wed, 19 May 2010 09:56:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20100518160715.GA6617@sdf.lonestar.org> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 19:56:31 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Named multiples From: Oleksii Melnyk To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lamelnyk@gmail.com designates 72.14.220.155 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lamelnyk@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: lamelnyk@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163646bb6c01a9240486f557c6 --00163646bb6c01a9240486f557c6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/5/19 Jorge Llamb=EDas > Anything preceded by "la" is a name. > That is. {la mersedes bents} always was {named (mersedes bents)}. After the unification, {mersedes bents karce} can be {[named (mersedes)][named bents][karce]} or {[named (mersedes bents)][karce]}, longer names will give a lot more. > And, like for any other word, you cannot pause in the middle of a > cmevla > Not sure. IMO, given the properly stressed speech, listener can recover the accidental extra pause between the syllables of the long gismu/lujvo/fu'ivla/cmevla, with some exceptions _like_ pause before "ku" i= n "la SELBRIkuLIKENAMEs", which, most probably, will be detected as "parsing error". It is impossible to avoid the extra pauses in spoken conversation (need to take a breath in the middle of a-very-long-and-difficult-foreign-name, network loose several voice packets, noise, speaker distraction). So, the change can be dangerous. BTW, pause in the speech is annoying, so, (while it is OK for written language,) the spoken one, (trying to exploit the "isomorphism" with the text,( full of cmene,)) can become a whole mess. --=20 mu'o mi'e lex --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --00163646bb6c01a9240486f557c6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2010/5/19 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com&g= t;
Anything preceded by "la" is a name.

Tha= t is. {la mersedes bents} always was {named (mersedes bents)}. After the un= ification, {mersedes bents karce} can be {[named (mersedes)][named bents][k= arce]} or {[named (mersedes bents)][karce]}, longer names will give a lot m= ore.
=A0
And, like for any other word, you cannot pause in the middle of a
cmevla

Not sure. IM= O, given the properly stressed speech, listener can recover the accidental = extra pause between the syllables of the long gismu/lujvo/fu'ivl= a/cmevla, with some exceptions _like_ pause before "ku" in "= la SELBRIkuLIKENAMEs", which, most probably, will be detected as "= ;parsing error".

It is impossible to avoid the extra pauses in spoken conversation (need= to take a breath in the middle of a-very-long-and-difficult-foreign-name, = network loose several voice packets, noise, speaker distraction). So, the c= hange can be dangerous.

BTW, pause in the speech is annoying, so, (while it is OK for written l= anguage,) the spoken one, (trying to exploit the "isomorphism" wi= th the text,( full of cmene,)) can become a whole mess.

--
mu'o mi'e lex

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