From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDs29TfBBoEQhWwoQ@googlegroups.com Thu May 20 05:42:22 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f145.google.com ([209.85.211.145]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OF547-0001kP-5q; Thu, 20 May 2010 05:42:19 -0700 Received: by ywh9 with SMTP id 9sf7534281ywh.19 for ; Thu, 20 May 2010 05:41:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=bJbNHpK70Z8QCXTPbe6zqkjWOmhCMA5wY31tRpRG0Eg=; b=UYz6mNJSxm0/mh0oEn0JJkTA8i1SH+3neBewD82EKJr8rIJ1i04OzDvA8pRY1e5kDY fpNnf8MvFQwUgOixu5AHF1rW0WoqLojT05MXdP8BpMdwUZ1/p0FcRHigFKj4xV6BtdbN KVXrRm+8RcWPJX/mgSmHgPu08SKuaIK5phK4k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=yhTS3tki+WsKj5gzysmepIXXzzM5n1Am11Ca4hbCtIj0JkPQZxRDPeQB2zEK1QzMyP L6MzjSoKDHVdSuzedp1SI4takEIDRlA7tPse7VF0BB+yZcPOQq4fJ2Nhex7j1aGUE8cw 7zIv6Yke+4zsIvL4Z3yHi03MnYW2xbHjuEvKU= Received: by 10.91.59.15 with SMTP id m15mr54987agk.9.1274359276411; Thu, 20 May 2010 05:41:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.91.6 with SMTP id t6ls87127agl.0.p; Thu, 20 May 2010 05:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.41.36 with SMTP id o36mr495201ago.8.1274359275791; Thu, 20 May 2010 05:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.41.36 with SMTP id o36mr495199ago.8.1274359275764; Thu, 20 May 2010 05:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f181.google.com (mail-qy0-f181.google.com [209.85.221.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si1067764ywh.3.2010.05.20.05.41.14; Thu, 20 May 2010 05:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.181; Received: by mail-qy0-f181.google.com with SMTP id 11so6410640qyk.13 for ; Thu, 20 May 2010 05:41:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.240.77 with SMTP id kz13mr2136119qcb.199.1274359274536; Thu, 20 May 2010 05:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.82.11 with HTTP; Thu, 20 May 2010 05:41:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20100518160715.GA6617@sdf.lonestar.org> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 09:41:14 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Named multiples From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 5:00 AM, Oleksii Melnyk wrote: > > Under the current syntax, names are always clearly labelled, so, > listener knows, that here will go something, not expected to be known in > advance to understand. Names still have to be labeled with "la", whether the word ends in a vowel or a consonant. > After the change, listener will never be sure, if he should look up the next > word in the memory, or just use the letter sequence, it hears, as the name. If it comes after "la", they just use the letter sequence, in other places they need to look it up. Just like now. In "la spagetis" all that matters is the letter sequence, in "lo me zei spagetis", they need to look it up. In "la donri" all that matters is the letter sequence, and in "lo donri" they need to look it up. Word form has nothing to do with it. > So, when we'll got big enough user base, taught on the text with enough > unlabelled names, they will tend to use that names in speech, and will tend > to shorten the required pause to zero, as it annoys a lot. That will result > in a lot of misunderstanding, causing a language drift. You are using "name" in two different senses, "word that ends in a consonant" and "word used as arbitrary label". In current Lojban, words that end in a consonant are not necessarily used as arbitary labels, and words used as arbitrary labels do not necessarily end in a consonant. So why use the same word to talk about both? mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.