From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxDK5PDfBBoEGU0E1w@googlegroups.com Tue May 25 13:26:03 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f149.google.com ([209.85.221.149]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OH0hK-0007hB-2o; Tue, 25 May 2010 13:26:02 -0700 Received: by qyk13 with SMTP id 13sf7821122qyk.1 for ; Tue, 25 May 2010 13:25:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; bh=EGOOeBEDPYzMq6HCIm4na0FR1lHpXDayDs4QFfzZdxo=; b=y5iW2v55EaNmGAfLdgWZBzpfh2wdgXkscPnzzNDFS1zcwECJsVS2ZV7oVbUG+e99/v LL98rOHublS/+XUaVDTLj4MdiUJUJXBontUwJZPnbeztlwzuJydIednqxSXokXcq8mDo f/4y9SSSGqmEe4fH0/BcgMJye1zSYgL/4eAaQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=zhMC9EpdSnISrpMLtN3Gu6TbmXWDVFPMtbjGBwvhpEZorL2FiQo4h28ClKiwdXgeMq jzp3j8+nRU+un7QBanQNKWx9KSOq3lGr0vamCCTrE+PZOZ3DR6wFXL6bhjr9HqYKyNhP N7kYNNopqApyidlHhtcfqm/rw50d2SgwQRY1M= Received: by 10.229.43.209 with SMTP id x17mr1259762qce.25.1274819146096; Tue, 25 May 2010 13:25:46 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.179.165 with SMTP id bq37ls65943qcb.3.p; Tue, 25 May 2010 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.19.95 with SMTP id z31mr814997qaa.22.1274819145504; Tue, 25 May 2010 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.19.95 with SMTP id z31mr814996qaa.22.1274819145467; Tue, 25 May 2010 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.121]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si725930qyk.0.2010.05.25.13.25.45; Tue, 25 May 2010 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.121 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.121; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=+ekMi77mZ5GklOGOY/oEe0KM76mYTylHWjxFepbNIe4= c=1 sm=0 a=7gwX-lQx6AQA:10 a=uEzv4HemXiYA:10 a=ORa4HqFjfvEA:10 a=N659UExz7-8A:10 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:17 a=MERQ_Aukv40qaq6FhGAA:9 a=UftkGiduHl9vaqmgZe-CQw6NueAA:4 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 71.71.198.100 Received: from [71.71.198.100] ([71.71.198.100:59126] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 30/C0-19173-8423CFB4; Tue, 25 May 2010 20:25:44 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50AB76022 for ; Tue, 25 May 2010 16:25:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] fu'ivla's definition: loanword or morphological class Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 16:25:40 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <4e37532f-631a-41f2-a341-2895efaea0b6@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <4e37532f-631a-41f2-a341-2895efaea0b6@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201005251625.41506.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.121 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Tuesday 25 May 2010 14:47:24 symuyn wrote: > There have been some discussions on the IRC room about {fu'ivla} and > its proper definition. > > People currently use {fu'ivla} to refer to: A. general loanwords > between any two languages or B. the Lojban morphological class of > brivla. These are definitely two different concepts, though they > happen to overlap a lot in Lojban. > > The question is: which definition should {fu'ivla} be defined to have? I think it should mean a loanword, and suggest "fu'irvlaseltai" to refer to= =20 something in the Lojban morphological class. If I say "fu'ivla" in English,= =20 though, I mean the morphological class. zo vonpaso mu'a fu'irvlaseltai jenai fu'ivla Pierre --=20 When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates. J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.