From lojban+bncCICntNPQBRDN2fvfBBoErgjFag@googlegroups.com Thu May 27 15:06:22 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f159.google.com ([209.85.211.159]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OHlDW-0004bI-52; Thu, 27 May 2010 15:06:22 -0700 Received: by ywh31 with SMTP id 31sf152953ywh.25 for ; Thu, 27 May 2010 15:06:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received:date :in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=20fflILDjE8VLVRhQZcYv8pH5XjDlNOLEx4l1SGuvag=; b=Vb6pjN01C9o+6k7cXZs75SbdN51BjL/zvd9kMTk/QtTwGnGh/62fC5o7ilzqvnuFQl 3qyf6tdkARzY7/UQVcX08v5UW+SGGWxBD6cr2s4YzMjeeDECihEcWUkNMZgUz80SSv5O tVCXUR573Bb7JpmBukhrXwp911cgUE9Vnvp24= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip :references:user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=P2+m+iS7AwR/hSHOYDESJ0a4oL0l0gwvISk2v62YozUuY4GMpGo0BGh45ZitGJQFYM y3wNqae1wGwc/QtnTpRJbqmrqKkoba3AZXk9uxmIZd0Mqg1++X7oLS3+b4kDorDYBlaH MGM//1BnidlCVUZDLRHP5xgpNABeMZUqEWrSM= Received: by 10.101.131.32 with SMTP id i32mr383957ann.30.1274997965486; Thu, 27 May 2010 15:06:05 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.148.2 with SMTP id a2ls497865ano.1.p; Thu, 27 May 2010 15:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.20.2 with SMTP id 2mr3427953ant.1.1274997963613; Thu, 27 May 2010 15:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.20.2 with SMTP id 2mr3427952ant.1.1274997963477; Thu, 27 May 2010 15:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f168.google.com (mail-yw0-f168.google.com [209.85.211.168]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a2si1316953anj.3.2010.05.27.15.06.03; Thu, 27 May 2010 15:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.211.168 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lindarthebard@yahoo.com) client-ip=209.85.211.168; Received: by mail-yw0-f168.google.com with SMTP id 40so153421ywh.12 for ; Thu, 27 May 2010 15:06:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.131.32 with SMTP id i32mr376813ann.70.1274997963255; Thu, 27 May 2010 15:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by a16g2000prg.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2010 15:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 15:06:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 173.196.20.139 References: <3414c7b0-2a75-4cb2-99a4-0afa6458f6ba@t34g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <7ac5ef76-747a-4077-ac8d-bd45e0c68005@y6g2000pra.googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3 ( .NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Re: Named multiples From: Lindar To: lojban X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.211.168 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lindarthebard@yahoo.com) smtp.mail=lindarthebard@yahoo.com X-Original-Sender: lindarthebard@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > This argument is really vague. What does "irregular word-form" mean? > What does "normally allowed" mean? Are you saying that this change > would make there be too many pauses? lojbancanbereadasonebigstringwhichishowit'sheardinspeachsoifwesuddenlyintroducewordsthatCANendinconsonantsthenwefrackuptheabilitytopickoutwordsaccurately. > If you're saying that this change could result in fu'ivla being > abandoned altogether, why is that a bad thing? Specifically, what is > it about cmevla-as-selbri that makes them good for the speaker but bad > for the language? The case against long lujvo is moot. We create loanwords from our own language when they become too long. Also, mitpavycinglepre is a really stupid example as that isn't an accurate lujvo for 'homosexual', and I'm quite offended by the idea that we have to have a word like that in a more enlightened age where gender and sexuality are fluid enough to warrant "nakni cinse", "fetsi cinse" and so on. I personally am offended by the use of "mitpavycinglepre". That aside, my point is that we create fu'ivla of exceptionally long lujvo in an effort to keep them short. It's like the lojbanic version of abbreviating things. We have a standard of phonological rules in Lojban. Everything ends in a vowel, anything with two or more syllables has penultimate stress, things have to have correct consonant clusters so they don't break apart. There is an ordered and well-thought-out structure to every single word, phrase, emphasis, and every other thing in the language. The ONLY thing that ends in a consonant is a name, and so names become easy to pick out due to the fact that we rarely use them in conversation, and they sound nothing like the rest of the language. On that mental parse tree, if we used "xorla", I would now have to stop and question every single cmevla to check whether or not it's being used as a selbri. If we restricted cmevla selbri to ONLY being "x1 is named/called...", then I would agree full-tilt with this proposal. If that doesn't work with everybody else, then can we at least put -some- restrictions on them? Perhaps that they're restricted to being single place selbri? =D We can call my proposal "linla" in honour of xorxes. ((zo'o)) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.